For the past several weeks I have been trying to reload a batch of once fired ?? range brass in 30-06. I can not get my German Fredrick Heym SR20 rifle to lock on the rounds which chamber but the bolt takes a quarter turn and stops. This is where I am on problem solving: cases (200) are a mixed brand batch with some military cases; I full length resized all the cases (had difficulty with old Lee Die set), so bought a set of RCBS dies; same problem, got the old RCBS case trimmer out and trimmed cases to 2.484" length, did not fix the problem; I bought a Hornady 30-06 cartridge gauge and finished cartridges fit perfectly; still the same problem, OAL of each round is 3.300". Bullets are 165gr Sierra "GameKing" spitzer boat tail. My press is an old Lee single stage that I bought new in 1989! The rifle was bought new in Germany for an Alaska Moose hunt in 1985. Has had only about 20 rounds thru it What am I missing? This is becoming an obsession! Need your help.
Reloading Range 30-06 Brass Problems
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You may be handicapping yourself from the start with mixed range brass that has an unknown history. Some brass may be once-fired, some may have been fired multiple times and could be worn out even if it looks fine.
Case capacity may not vary much with a small rifle cartridge like the .223 or a handgun cartridge but can make a big difference with a case as large as a .30-06. Some will tell you mixed brass is fine and sometimes that's true, but it will never be as good as new or truly once-fired brass of the same lot and headstamp, or at least headstamp.
Aside from that, pick out some of your brass with the same headstamp and turn your sizing down in gradual steps and size brass with each step, checking it in your rifle to see if it works. Use empty brass; no need to try a complete dummy cartridge until you get the sizing problem solved. Don't be afraid to cam over the press if necessary for maximum sizing. If possible, fire a couple of rounds of factory ammo and try and size that brass and see how it does.
You may need to get a new size die. I've experienced the problem you have described several times, but only once in several years of reloading many dozen different rifle cartridges did I need to try a new size die to solve the problem. Don't waste money on small base dies. Some recommend these dies and they will work, but will size your cases to the point they are sized too much and brass life will be shortened. Not the best way to handle the problem.
Once you get everything working right, size your brass just enough to allow bolt closure with a very slight resistance. It will last a lot longer than 100% full-length sizing.
Case capacity may not vary much with a small rifle cartridge like the .223 or a handgun cartridge but can make a big difference with a case as large as a .30-06. Some will tell you mixed brass is fine and sometimes that's true, but it will never be as good as new or truly once-fired brass of the same lot and headstamp, or at least headstamp.
Aside from that, pick out some of your brass with the same headstamp and turn your sizing down in gradual steps and size brass with each step, checking it in your rifle to see if it works. Use empty brass; no need to try a complete dummy cartridge until you get the sizing problem solved. Don't be afraid to cam over the press if necessary for maximum sizing. If possible, fire a couple of rounds of factory ammo and try and size that brass and see how it does.
You may need to get a new size die. I've experienced the problem you have described several times, but only once in several years of reloading many dozen different rifle cartridges did I need to try a new size die to solve the problem. Don't waste money on small base dies. Some recommend these dies and they will work, but will size your cases to the point they are sized too much and brass life will be shortened. Not the best way to handle the problem.
Once you get everything working right, size your brass just enough to allow bolt closure with a very slight resistance. It will last a lot longer than 100% full-length sizing.
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Just asking, but have you tried factory rounds in the rifle?
Chances are the person who fired those rounds left them for a reason. If there are cases of mixed origin in a pile all in the same caliber, the person was a reloader and most likely felt they were at the end of their life cycle anyway.
smithra_66
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If your round fit into a case gauge then there is something wrong with your chamber. It sounds like the chamber isn't headspaced properly.
You full length sized so the shoulder should be in the right spot and your OAL is well within spec. Gotta be a chamber issue. Check to see that it's not dirty or corroded, but other than that the chamber is not in spec for 30-06.
I agree with trying to chamber a freshly sized case. If it does not chamber, coat the the entire case with a black marker and try again. If the black is rubbed off on the shoulder and case head, you have a headspace issue.
If it does chamber, seat a bullet at your 3.300--no primer/no powder--and try again. You can also blacken the bullet to check to see if it's engaging the lands. Some guns have short throats, some longer.
And one last thought, the gun being German made, it may be a Mauser action. Are you dropping the round into the chamber and then closing the bolt or feeding from the magazine? A Mauser is controlled feed and should feed from the mag. The only Mauser I ever used would do exactly as you describe if trying to drop a round in the chamber and then close the bolt.
If it does chamber, seat a bullet at your 3.300--no primer/no powder--and try again. You can also blacken the bullet to check to see if it's engaging the lands. Some guns have short throats, some longer.
And one last thought, the gun being German made, it may be a Mauser action. Are you dropping the round into the chamber and then closing the bolt or feeding from the magazine? A Mauser is controlled feed and should feed from the mag. The only Mauser I ever used would do exactly as you describe if trying to drop a round in the chamber and then close the bolt.
Delta,
Even though you are sizing to SAAMI, your chamber may not be there, or is too close to SAAMI.
Should be able to remedy this by sizing to your chamber with the components you have.
Ideally, if you have brass fired from this rifle, you should be able to size based on the expanded case you have from your rifle. It will require a precision micrometer (RCBS) which measures to the shoulder of your fired case. You can then set your dies to be 0.001 - 0.002 under your shoulder.
I use Redding competition shell-holders to get where I need to be.
This absolutely needs to be measured with a case fired from your rifle, but should result in loads specific for your chamber.
Even though you are sizing to SAAMI, your chamber may not be there, or is too close to SAAMI.
Should be able to remedy this by sizing to your chamber with the components you have.
Ideally, if you have brass fired from this rifle, you should be able to size based on the expanded case you have from your rifle. It will require a precision micrometer (RCBS) which measures to the shoulder of your fired case. You can then set your dies to be 0.001 - 0.002 under your shoulder.
I use Redding competition shell-holders to get where I need to be.
This absolutely needs to be measured with a case fired from your rifle, but should result in loads specific for your chamber.
OP
30-06
I will take each suggestion and see if it will correct this problem. My next purchase will be a box of loaded ammo. This gun has never had reloads in it. It was a tack driver the last time I shot it. It is truly a Mauser rifle, empty cases will not chamber from the magazine. I made up several dummy rounds that fit the gauge but they would not work. My buddy has a bucket of once fired match grade brass in 30-06 and I called him and he will part with enough to help me out. The rifle will get a through cleaning, since it has not seen the light of day since 2000, maybe dried oil is the devil. I took a 48 point double shovel caribou in Alaska which got my moose tag. Scope is a Zeiss 6-12x56mm it is the best I have ever owned, you can read "made in China" on the back of a virus"! Thank you for the suggestions.
I will take each suggestion and see if it will correct this problem. My next purchase will be a box of loaded ammo. This gun has never had reloads in it. It was a tack driver the last time I shot it. It is truly a Mauser rifle, empty cases will not chamber from the magazine. I made up several dummy rounds that fit the gauge but they would not work. My buddy has a bucket of once fired match grade brass in 30-06 and I called him and he will part with enough to help me out. The rifle will get a through cleaning, since it has not seen the light of day since 2000, maybe dried oil is the devil. I took a 48 point double shovel caribou in Alaska which got my moose tag. Scope is a Zeiss 6-12x56mm it is the best I have ever owned, you can read "made in China" on the back of a virus"! Thank you for the suggestions.
smithra_66
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One other suggestion: a good set of go / no-go gauges is nice to have.
The bolt should close on the go, and not on the no-go. Anything else and you have a definite chamber issue. If your chamber is out of spec, I'd be leery of altering your rounds to make them work in a non-saami spec chamber. If those rounds ever made it into a "standard" chamber and were fired they may create some problems.
I'd suggest fixing the problem in the gun.
Good luck!
The bolt should close on the go, and not on the no-go. Anything else and you have a definite chamber issue. If your chamber is out of spec, I'd be leery of altering your rounds to make them work in a non-saami spec chamber. If those rounds ever made it into a "standard" chamber and were fired they may create some problems.
I'd suggest fixing the problem in the gun.
Good luck!
Delta,
Agree on getting some factory ammo to see how it chambers. Additionally, go/no go gauges are a must have as Smithra-66 encourages.
Reloading is a great way to customize loads specifically for your specific gun, but there are many steps that need to be followed to ensure you are well within the specs needed to be safe for your set up.
For a cartridge such as the 30-06, there are more than 20 different measurements to consider. To complicate the process, some of these measurements have a plus or minus tolerance. This is because even though there are SAAMI specifications on chamber dimensions—another 20-plus measurements—no two chambers end up being absolutely identical.
There is a lot of data out there and as long as you follow it, you should be able to put together a superior load for your rifle than factory loads afford.
Agree on getting some factory ammo to see how it chambers. Additionally, go/no go gauges are a must have as Smithra-66 encourages.
Reloading is a great way to customize loads specifically for your specific gun, but there are many steps that need to be followed to ensure you are well within the specs needed to be safe for your set up.
For a cartridge such as the 30-06, there are more than 20 different measurements to consider. To complicate the process, some of these measurements have a plus or minus tolerance. This is because even though there are SAAMI specifications on chamber dimensions—another 20-plus measurements—no two chambers end up being absolutely identical.
There is a lot of data out there and as long as you follow it, you should be able to put together a superior load for your rifle than factory loads afford.
twodog max
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I had a similar problem with a Benelli R1. Factory ammo worked fine but my reloads would chamber only with a little help and sometimes not at all. I was using small base dies, RCBS. These had always worked before in several 30/06 rifles pump and bolt guns. I was using new WW brass so I figured it was not a brass problem. The small base dies had always seemed to make sizing very hard. So I ordered a new set of RCBS full length dies. I set them up EXACTLY as the instructions said to. Sometimes I think lots of experience makes us shortcut. Now all reloads feed flawlessly. I think a chamber on the tight side and sloppy reloading procedures on my part caused the problem.
Careful attention to details fixed my problem. I also agree range pickup brass may be the root cause of the problem. The rifle they were fired in may have had a large chamber and even after sizing brass will sort of spring back. This is why brass is used it is tough but somewhat flexible.
You could have some dried gunk in the chamber but it if worked well before and has been stored since I doubt there is rifle problem that developed by storage other than the gunk thing.
Interesting problem.
Careful attention to details fixed my problem. I also agree range pickup brass may be the root cause of the problem. The rifle they were fired in may have had a large chamber and even after sizing brass will sort of spring back. This is why brass is used it is tough but somewhat flexible.
You could have some dried gunk in the chamber but it if worked well before and has been stored since I doubt there is rifle problem that developed by storage other than the gunk thing.
Interesting problem.
Your mixed range brass was fired and "formed" in a multitude of chambers. My guess is brass spring back after sizing, meaning the brass wants the spring back to its fired dimensions.
Try sizing a few cases again and pause at the top of the ram stroke for 4 to 5 seconds. Pausing reduces the amount of spring back after sizing. Meaning the case body diameter will be smaller and the shoulder location shorter due to less brass spring back.
I buy bulk once fired Lake City 5.56 and 7.62 brass and size it the first time with a small base die and pausing at the top of the ram stroke.
The problem with the majority of case gauges is they are designed to just check the resized case shoulder location. And they assume you will be just checking cases fired in your rifle.
You need a case gauge like the Sheridan case gauge below that is closer to minimum SAAMI diameter.
Sheridan Engineering 30-06 Ammunition Gauge
30-06 Ammunition Gauge – Sheridan Engineering
The gauge is machined to the SAAMI minimum chamber spec for the 30-06 caliber. This allows you to check brass sizing, headspace, bullet seating, and crimping all with one gauge. Stainless Steel construction. These gauges are designed primarily for use where the brass is always full length resized.
I use JP Enterprise case gauges to check case body diameter after sizing. If the resized case fits in these type gauges the cartridge will fit in any chamber.
Below is a Dillon .308 case gauge and I have dropped a "FIRED" Lake City case into the gauge. This is to show you the difference in gauge diameters between gauges.
Now below is the same fired Lake City case in a JP Enterprise gauge. This shows you how much smaller in diameter the JP Enterprise gauge is vs the Dillon gauge.
Your 30-06 cases are not chambering for two possible reasons.
1. The case shoulder is not being pushed back far enough to compensate for brass spring back.
2. The case body diameter is not being reduced enough to compensate for brass spring back.
You tried several resizing dies and it did not fix the problem. You need to size the cases back to minimum SAAMI dimensions. So first try sizing the cases again and "PAUSING" for 4 to 5 seconds before buying a small base die.
NOTE, in a semi-auto the resized case body should be .003 to .005 smaller in diameter than its fired diameter. This allows the case to chamber freely and allows the case body to spring back from the chamber walls and extract reliably.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjpf6GbQPlw[/ame]
Try sizing a few cases again and pause at the top of the ram stroke for 4 to 5 seconds. Pausing reduces the amount of spring back after sizing. Meaning the case body diameter will be smaller and the shoulder location shorter due to less brass spring back.
I buy bulk once fired Lake City 5.56 and 7.62 brass and size it the first time with a small base die and pausing at the top of the ram stroke.
The problem with the majority of case gauges is they are designed to just check the resized case shoulder location. And they assume you will be just checking cases fired in your rifle.
You need a case gauge like the Sheridan case gauge below that is closer to minimum SAAMI diameter.
Sheridan Engineering 30-06 Ammunition Gauge
30-06 Ammunition Gauge – Sheridan Engineering
The gauge is machined to the SAAMI minimum chamber spec for the 30-06 caliber. This allows you to check brass sizing, headspace, bullet seating, and crimping all with one gauge. Stainless Steel construction. These gauges are designed primarily for use where the brass is always full length resized.
I use JP Enterprise case gauges to check case body diameter after sizing. If the resized case fits in these type gauges the cartridge will fit in any chamber.
Below is a Dillon .308 case gauge and I have dropped a "FIRED" Lake City case into the gauge. This is to show you the difference in gauge diameters between gauges.
Now below is the same fired Lake City case in a JP Enterprise gauge. This shows you how much smaller in diameter the JP Enterprise gauge is vs the Dillon gauge.
Your 30-06 cases are not chambering for two possible reasons.
1. The case shoulder is not being pushed back far enough to compensate for brass spring back.
2. The case body diameter is not being reduced enough to compensate for brass spring back.
You tried several resizing dies and it did not fix the problem. You need to size the cases back to minimum SAAMI dimensions. So first try sizing the cases again and "PAUSING" for 4 to 5 seconds before buying a small base die.
NOTE, in a semi-auto the resized case body should be .003 to .005 smaller in diameter than its fired diameter. This allows the case to chamber freely and allows the case body to spring back from the chamber walls and extract reliably.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjpf6GbQPlw[/ame]
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If by chance your chamber is out of "Spec", you can visit a gunsmith and
have it fixed or adjust your cases to "Custom" to work in your weapon.
Good luck finding what the problem is.
have it fixed or adjust your cases to "Custom" to work in your weapon.
Good luck finding what the problem is.
The only time I leave 30-06 brass it is fired out of a BAR or a M-60. Scrap it and start over with known brass.
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Always feed rounds from a Mauser claw type extractor rifle from the magazine only. Do NOT toss loose rounds in the chamber and force the bolt closed. Good chance you will break your extractor hook sooner or later.
On the brass itself, if range pickup rifle brass isn't certainly once-fired I leave it on the ground. Mixed unknown rifle brass is trouble.
On the brass itself, if range pickup rifle brass isn't certainly once-fired I leave it on the ground. Mixed unknown rifle brass is trouble.
Overthinking, sounds to me like that particular bullet is engaging the rifling before the bolt closes all the way. If brass is sized and trimmed it hasn't anything to do with this problem. If OP hadn't had checked rounds in guage I would have said shoulder set back.
You are going to have bolt closing problems with 30/06 in a M60 too.
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