Reloading S&W 500 w/Titegroup

[Dieselhorses]

Hi,
I'm somewhat new at reloading but I go rather SLOW with every step (check and RE-check) everything. My question is, is I am using "Titegroup" 14.5 starting gr for reloading my S&W 500. I use large rifle primers for brass (marked with "R" on case). Using 440 Hard Cast Lead bullets (powder coated). Anyway, Hodgdon's load data states using the starting gr at 14.5. Well I have 22 rounds that I reloaded with above info but haven't shot yet. Reason being, I read on some forum that a fellow blew his gun up using this recipe. (Bear in mind I am also using a heavy crimp to prevent blow-by, and no I am not using gas checks.) I guess what I am asking, is have you heard ANYONE who reloads .500 with Titegroup powder have any problems?

 

[Dieselhorses]

follow up

Well Hodgdon's emailed me back and said there no reports of erratic behavior with the load I mentioned. I did test about 20 rounds and all launched fine (except for accuracy).

 

[BLUEDOT37]

If someone blew-up their 500 with that load it wasn't because of erractic (powder) behavior, it was because of an accidental double charge of powder. That's what you NEED to guard against.

 

[muddocktor]

If someone blew-up their 500 with that load it wasn't because of erractic (powder) behavior, it was because of an accidental double charge of powder. That's what you NEED to guard against.

Yep, that would be my worry too. Small charges of fast powders in large to very large cases are harder to spot if there is a double charge loaded into the case.

 

[ageingstudent]

Well Hodgdon's emailed me back and said there no reports of erratic behavior with the load I mentioned. I did test about 20 rounds and all launched fine (except for accuracy).

Since you're newer I thought it worth mentioning that I have better luck with accuracy in general, when the case is 75% or more filled with powder. I'm not saying you won't find an accurate load with the tightgroup, but using a slower powder that fills that big case better gives you a better chance of finding an accurate and efficient load. I do load for the .500 from time to time and keep some N105 around for that purpose. N105 is a little spendy, but at the price of .500 factory ammo spending a little more on powder seems insignificant to me. If you want a lighter loading try some Trailboss it will fill up the case and not bruise your hand.

 

[Dieselhorses]

Powder

Thanks for the replies. Yes, Trailboss may be the ticket. When I was at the range (indoor) last night, and loading only one round at a time for the first few, making sure a NEW hole at least hit paper, I then confidently then loaded 5 at a time. Oddly enough I noticed a few "holes" in target and some places where the big 440's appeared to have "tumbled" through lol. First thing came to mind was "run-out" in my rounds, but I examined each one to make sure they were all straight after being seated. Anyway, it won't happen over night, but I'll get there!

Thanks again guys.

 

[fredj338]

Hi,
I'm somewhat new at reloading but I go rather SLOW with every step (check and RE-check) everything. My question is, is I am using "Titegroup" 14.5 starting gr for reloading my S&W 500. I use large rifle primers for brass (marked with "R" on case). Using 440 Hard Cast Lead bullets (powder coated). Anyway, Hodgdon's load data states using the starting gr at 14.5. Well I have 22 rounds that I reloaded with above info but haven't shot yet. Reason being, I read on some forum that a fellow blew his gun up using this recipe. (Bear in mind I am also using a heavy crimp to prevent blow-by, and no I am not using gas checks.) I guess what I am asking, is have you heard ANYONE who reloads .500 with Titegroup powder have any problems?

No he KB his gun because he double charge, waaaay to easy to do in a huge case like the 500. IMO, just the wrong powder for the 500, any bullet weight. If you want softer loads, get a smaller caliber? I like medium burners for less than max loads in any of the magnums, though I do not own a 500, yet.
BTW, runout really never comes into play in a handgun round. Tumbling is often one of two things; a too heavy bullet running too slow or a bullet too small in dia or both. It's a stability thing.

 

[rsrocket1]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, Trailboss may be the ticket. When I was at the range (indoor) last night, and loading only one round at a time for the first few, making sure a NEW hole at least hit paper, I then confidently then loaded 5 at a time. Oddly enough I noticed a few "holes" in target and some places where the big 440's appeared to have "tumbled" through lol. First thing came to mind was "run-out" in my rounds, but I examined each one to make sure they were all straight after being seated. Anyway, it won't happen over night, but I'll get there!

Thanks again guys.

Are you sure the bullets were tumbling? Many times you can get an oblong hole if you are shooting a hanging paper target. Shooting a target stapled to a solid cardboard backing will get you much cleaner holes.

 

[Dieselhorses]

Makes sense about the tumbling effect and whether a target is just hanging or stapled to a solid board. At any rate, I succeeded in getting the rounds to exit the cannon, lol.have to work on a slight "leading" issue now. Used 2 coats of powdercoating but I didn't use gas checks. What is the ideal combo? My lead I'm using has the highest brinell strength or close to it.

 

[cowboy4evr]

I don't have a 500 , but lead issues are the same in any caliber .
First , you're not shooting full magnum loads so your bullet hardness could very well be too hard for the velocity / pressure you are shooting .
Second , I really feel your problem is " fit " . Can you push your bullets through the cylinder with only slight pressure ? I would definitely check the cylinder throats measurement , then slug the barrel to get the " groove diameter " . I'm thinking your cylinder throats are probably smaller than the barrel dimension . You might even have a " choke " where the barrel threads onto the frame . When they are indexing the front sight to the rear sight , if they over tighten the barrel it causes a tight spot at that junction point . There are several considerations when one shoots cast bullets in a revolver . You might want to start with plated bullets , if they are available for the 500 . I shoot cast bullets in all my revolvers , but it has been a " learning " experience to get there .
To clean lead out of a barrel , simply buy some " Chore Boy " scouring pads . They are pure copper . Cut a pad , wrap it around the bore brush and in less than a couple of minutes you will of completely removed all the lead . Do NOT buy aftermarket scouring pads that claim to be copper for they are steel with a copper coating . Chore Boy is available at most walmarts or Ace Hdwe stores .

 

[Dieselhorses]

Slower powder-bore/cylinder

Yes I'm going to try slower powder and YES "cowboy4evr" I'll definitely check out those measurements. I was unsure if you were talking about pushing bullets through "cylinder" or "barrel". Another thing I have to do is mic my bullet sizer from Lee who claims it's .501. And yes, I have some pure lead ingots I may add to the ingots I've been using so far. Don't have a "lead test kit" per say. Anyway it might take a year or so before I actually find the "perfect load". I just ain't to keen on paying 35.00-70.00 per 20 rounds for the mammoth. I'll find some Chore boy too. Sorry about being long winded.

 

[ageingstudent]

Yes I'm going to try slower powder and YES "cowboy4evr" I'll definitely check out those measurements. I was unsure if you were talking about pushing bullets through "cylinder" or "barrel". Another thing I have to do is mic my bullet sizer from Lee who claims it's .501. And yes, I have some pure lead ingots I may add to the ingots I've been using so far. Don't have a "lead test kit" per say. Anyway it might take a year or so before I actually find the "perfect load". I just ain't to keen on paying 35.00-70.00 per 20 rounds for the mammoth. I'll find some Chore boy too. Sorry about being long winded.

With a powder coated bullet getting a good fit is still very important so be sure to measure the cylinders and bore and bullets. If your bullets are a tad small you can PC up a couple thousandths and make them fit. All the info you got above is excellent. Slower powder, bullet size/fit...patience haha.

If you are using a factory crimp die be careful that the lead bullet isn't being sized down during the crimp stage.

 

[NJM15]

Careful with large caliber loads

Hi,
I'm somewhat new at reloading but I go rather SLOW with every step (check and RE-check) everything. My question is, is I am using "Titegroup" 14.5 starting gr for reloading my S&W 500. I use large rifle primers for brass (marked with "R" on case). Using 440 Hard Cast Lead bullets (powder coated). Anyway, Hodgdon's load data states using the starting gr at 14.5. Well I have 22 rounds that I reloaded with above info but haven't shot yet. Reason being, I read on some forum that a fellow blew his gun up using this recipe. (Bear in mind I am also using a heavy crimp to prevent blow-by, and no I am not using gas checks.) I guess what I am asking, is have you heard ANYONE who reloads .500 with Titegroup powder have any problems?

I don't have a 500 but with my Colt longs I load each one individually not progressively and do a visual on them before I press the bullet.
like what's been said its hard to judge a double on the large, but to be extra safe I dump one on the scale and re weigh charge the case record its weight , and weigh each one loaded case to make sure they are pretty much the same. I know it is a long process, but beats only needing a half a pair of gloves

 

[fredj338]

Makes sense about the tumbling effect and whether a target is just hanging or stapled to a solid board. At any rate, I succeeded in getting the rounds to exit the cannon, lol.have to work on a slight "leading" issue now. Used 2 coats of powdercoating but I didn't use gas checks. What is the ideal combo? My lead I'm using has the highest brinell strength or close to it.

Just another reason TG is not a powder I will load. It doesn't play well with lead bullets. Check your bullet dia, bigger is better. Check each cyl throat, a small throat sizes any bullet to that dia & you get leading, especially early in the bbl. I shoot PC bullets, one coat, to 2000fps w/ no leading in rifles, so any handgun vel should work fine with proper bullet fit, a minimum of 0.001" over bore size.
All magnums are expensive to shoot. Trying to save $$ on powder with TG is just false economy IMO. Tg will save you a 1/2 penny over say Unique & you will get better results with the Unique.

 

[Dieselhorses]

I originally bought the TG for my 45 acp. Since I had it I tried it on the 50. No more though!

 

[JackRussel]

I've used H110 mostly with the 500 with no problems, although I have also used Unique for reduced power loads for friends that want to shoot it for the first time. YMMV.

 

[Dieselhorses]

500 Trial and Error leading

So, I measured each hole in front of cylinder and each measured .498 exactly. Measured a bullet and it measured a tad over the .500 mark (I spun bullet several times to get an average). I am aware of and informed by a few reputable sources that in order to reduce the amount of hot gases that want to "blow by" the round, well one of course is a GC, the other making sure your round is .001 to .002 larger than the "cylinder exit hole". I am heeding all of your advice! One dumb question though concerning "crimps" -is it better to just seat all bullets and then back off seating plug and then adjust die to crimp? I did everything in one step last time. I DID keep the COL consistent. Also next time I cast, going to see if sizing is even necessary depending on the fresh diameter from mold.

 

[Dieselhorses]

I heard ya! After swinging a 22 ounce Estwing for 30 years and using worm drive saws it kinda conditioned me to handle the 500. I've shot 700 gr. magnum rounds and never really bothered me. I WILL try H110 and Unique in upcoming reloads though.

 

[ageingstudent]

So, I measured each hole in front of cylinder and each measured .498 exactly. Measured a bullet and it measured a tad over the .500 mark (I spun bullet several times to get an average). I am aware of and informed by a few reputable sources that in order to reduce the amount of hot gases that want to "blow by" the round, well one of course is a GC, the other making sure your round is .001 to .002 larger than the "cylinder exit hole". I am heeding all of your advice! One dumb question though concerning "crimps" -is it better to just seat all bullets and then back off seating plug and then adjust die to crimp? I did everything in one step last time. I DID keep the COL consistent. Also next time I cast, going to see if sizing is even necessary depending on the fresh diameter from mold.

As far as crimping the .500 yes imop it is better to seat and crimp separately. It's a big heavy walled case and as the he crimp closes it usually takes considerably more pressure to finish seating the bullet. This can deform the nose of the bullet, or possibly buckle the case. Don't ask me how I know;P.

 

[cowboy4evr]

Your bullets should be 1-2 thousandths bigger than the groove diameter of the barrel , not the cylinder exit hole (cylinder throats) . If the cylinder throats are smaller , they will size down your cast bullets . Your bullets should push through the cylinder itself with just finger pressure .
You need to slug the barrel . You want that slug (dead soft lead) to just enter about 1/8th of an inch into the barrel , muzzle end , pull it out and measure . The rifling on a smith makes it a little difficult to measure , just take your time , get several readings and you will determine the " groove diameter of the barrel . Now you will be able to determine what size your cast bullets should be . I bet your cast bullets need to be about .502 min. And remember , they need to push through the cylinder throats with just finger pressure , not pounding on them with a hammer . For about $15 you can buy a little booklet that explains all of this in detail from Veral Smith @ LBT Molds , called " Jacketed Performance with Cast bullets " . The booklet goes into much more detail and explains how to fix problematic details . If I remember correctly , for about $10 you can buy a small pkg of slugs made exclusively to measuring the barrel . He has them in many calibers . If you are unsure of the measurement after you have taken it ? You can send him the slug and he will measure it for you . Gas checks do not always solve a problem of leading a barrel . Getting the correct " Fit " is very important in obtaining reliable accuracy and solving the problem of leading a barrel .