OP
Dieselhorses
Member
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DL7Skfr25g&spfreload=1[/ame]
hmmm...
hmmm...
Reloading S&W 500 w/Titegroup
- Thread starter Dieselhorses
- Start date
- Calipers will get you in the ballpark but pin gages are a better choice if you can.
- If you haven't already, it's also good to measure your bullet lengthwise. Bullets aren't always of uniform diameter. Checking lengthwise will quickly tell you what diameter will actually present itself (i.e., the largest diameter) to the throats. I've bought more than one brand's bullets that were larger, or small, at the base or shoulder than the other, or even the middle.
-Buy a separate die for crimping, especially with lead bullets.
. .
If you're going to slug your barrel, I suggest you pound the bullet all the way thru, not just into the tip, as nothing guarantees the bore diameter will be uniform the full length.
I've twice encountered bore's (on new S&W's) that had barrel constrictions at the frame by using the appropriate size pin gage & sliding it down the barrel only to have it stop firmly at the constriction. Partial slugging would not show the smallest diameter of the barrel.
Five groove S&W's require a special tool to measure slugged bullets since no groove/land is opposite the other. Without it you're just approximating.
I find the bore's diameter using a pin gage set. Then I measure the bore & (one) land's diameter with a telescopicing gauge. Subtract the first reading from the second to find the groove's depth, double it & add it back to the bore diameter to find the overall groove diameter.
On modern guns the throats are more a variable than the bores & usually require the most scrutinizing. At a minimum, size for the throats until you know otherwise.
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Road_Clam
Member
I load for the 460 mag and my fav "full bang" powder is H110. Keep in mind with the mag ball powders is to load no less than 90% case capacity. Mag ball powders can become inconsistent when you have excessive air space between the bullet and powder. My accuracy load is 50 gr of H110 and the Hornady 200 gr FTX. 2260 fps from my 12" XVR
OP
Dieselhorses
Member
Interesting, gonna have to "absorb" this info, LOL.
cowboy4evr
Member
Actually , even though the smiths have an odd number of grooves , it's still possible to get a pretty accurate number . It has been done for years so don't let others discourage you . You need that number as a reference point , even though it's not " dead accurate " , it will be close enough for what you want , trust me .
Pushing the lead slug all the way through the barrel tells you a lot of things ? Is there a tight spot where they " roll " stamped the markings on the side of the barrel ? Is there a tight spot where the barrel joins the frame ? That is caused by over torquing the barrel when indexing the front sight to the rear sight . That problem is not uncommon .
IF there is machine marks inside the barrel , you will feel them as you push the slug through the barrel along with any tight spots . I realize this is a lot of info , but to shoot cast successfully it does require some homework on your part . I have revolvers today that I can shoot from " mild to wild " w/o leading the barrel and the accuracy groups are 1/2 the size of what they were before I remedied some of the problems described above .
Is it worth it ? To me it is . I cast my own bullets , size them properly . I don't get too caught up about bullet hardness . Waaayy too much emphasis is placed on bullet hardness . There are " no shortcuts " to shoot cast successfully . Like I mentioned above , Verals little book was a gold mine for me . Good Luck ! Paul
Pushing the lead slug all the way through the barrel tells you a lot of things ? Is there a tight spot where they " roll " stamped the markings on the side of the barrel ? Is there a tight spot where the barrel joins the frame ? That is caused by over torquing the barrel when indexing the front sight to the rear sight . That problem is not uncommon .
IF there is machine marks inside the barrel , you will feel them as you push the slug through the barrel along with any tight spots . I realize this is a lot of info , but to shoot cast successfully it does require some homework on your part . I have revolvers today that I can shoot from " mild to wild " w/o leading the barrel and the accuracy groups are 1/2 the size of what they were before I remedied some of the problems described above .
Is it worth it ? To me it is . I cast my own bullets , size them properly . I don't get too caught up about bullet hardness . Waaayy too much emphasis is placed on bullet hardness . There are " no shortcuts " to shoot cast successfully . Like I mentioned above , Verals little book was a gold mine for me . Good Luck ! Paul
OP
Dieselhorses
Member
Went to LBTmolds.com and it looks like this may be the ticket to doing things right. I don't shoot just for the "noise", I want my round to hit precisely where I'm aiming. Thanks Paul! And thanks to all others with valuable input! I'll post as things progress.
OP
Dieselhorses
Member
Bore disposition
Just wanted an opinion on how the "land and grooves" were supposed to look. I never could find "Chore boy" locally and had to order some. But I used Hoppe's, acetone and a 50/50 mix of hydrogen peroxide and white vinegar and a copper brush. Should the grooves be as shiny as the lands? The first 3 is before, the last 2 is after.
Just wanted an opinion on how the "land and grooves" were supposed to look. I never could find "Chore boy" locally and had to order some. But I used Hoppe's, acetone and a 50/50 mix of hydrogen peroxide and white vinegar and a copper brush. Should the grooves be as shiny as the lands? The first 3 is before, the last 2 is after.
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bluetopper
Member
I've never slugged a barrel in my life and have been shooting cast bullets in all calibers including a 500 S&W Handi-Rifle shooting gas check bullets at over 2100fps and never have I ever had a leading problem. I won't say I have never experienced occasional leading but it has been sparse and never to the extent I would consider it a problem. The only things my barrels ever have had in them is a nylon bore brush, diesel soaked patches and cast lead bullets and they stay shiny clean.
Titegroup powder and the 500 has been discussed here before. John Ross and I agree 100% on the useage of Titegroup powder in the 500 or any large revolver caliber for that matter. Link below:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/178521-why-i-dont-use-titegroup-500-a.html
Titegroup powder and the 500 has been discussed here before. John Ross and I agree 100% on the useage of Titegroup powder in the 500 or any large revolver caliber for that matter. Link below:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/178521-why-i-dont-use-titegroup-500-a.html
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OP
Dieselhorses
Member
I can't divulge the entire email from H***don's but I did get a reply off the order of "...would we have printed the load data if it were dangerous"? (They also suggested a "double charge"...) In any case I'm moving on to H110. If GC's eliminate leading or the majority of then I'll go with em. I'll get another revolver and experiment with the "scientific aspects".
rsrocket1
Member
oooh, don't mix vinager with hydrogen peroxide to clean out lead! It produces lead acetate which is toxic. It won't kill you immediately but it will cause lead poisoning. See lead acetate, how to produce it
If you can't find Chore Boy (I found it at Walgreens)
Don't buy the bargain bin stuff unless you are sure it's not copper coated steel scrubbers. Another place you can search is Lowes, Home Depot, or ACE hardware. Look for Bronze Wool:
Some websites call it "Bronze Steel Wool" but it's really pure bronze. Bronze wool is used on boats because when steel wool is used, it leaves behind fine steel particles which will rust and stain a ship.
Chore Boy is cheaper if you can find it, but bronze wool will work too. This is all you need when scrubbing lead out of a barrel:
If you can't find Chore Boy (I found it at Walgreens)
Don't buy the bargain bin stuff unless you are sure it's not copper coated steel scrubbers. Another place you can search is Lowes, Home Depot, or ACE hardware. Look for Bronze Wool:
Some websites call it "Bronze Steel Wool" but it's really pure bronze. Bronze wool is used on boats because when steel wool is used, it leaves behind fine steel particles which will rust and stain a ship.
Chore Boy is cheaper if you can find it, but bronze wool will work too. This is all you need when scrubbing lead out of a barrel:
OP
Dieselhorses
Member
WT? Now we have chemists in here? LOL Yea I plugged my barrel at the forcing cone and filled it up to let it soak for an hour, then dumped it but yea I got it on my hands. I reckon I better go to doctor? On the bright side I FINALLY FOUND THE CHORE BOY!!!!!!!!! (At ACE hardware 
) (if you don't hear back from me send flowers.)
) (if you don't hear back from me send flowers.)
muddocktor
Member
If you washed your hands immediately after getting that stuff on them you should be all right. I don't think it will absorb through your skin quickly. But it is best to use protection when handling chemicals and nitrile gloves are cheap at Harbor Freight. I rather nitrile instead of latex gloves as they are more resistant to chemicals and oils.
OP
Dieselhorses
Member
I found the Chore boy and cleaned barrel thoroughly, all looks good. But can someone tell me if the grooves are supposed to look "duller" than the lands? They just don't look as finely machined as the lands. (Sorry I'm a perfectionist.)
cowboy4evr
Member
Let's work on one thing at a time . Get the proper size cast bullets , make sure the cylinder throats are properly sized -- etc .
WT? Now we have chemists in here? LOL Yea I plugged my barrel at the forcing cone and filled it up to let it soak for an hour, then dumped it but yea I got it on my hands. I reckon I better go to doctor? On the bright side I FINALLY FOUND THE CHORE BOY!!!!!!!!! (At ACE hardware
No offense, but you are "nuts"
The Hydrogen peroxide and ammonia mix is only for severe lead fouling and should left in the barrel for ONLY 2-3 minutes. If you mixed all this stuff and left if for an hour you are lucky if you have any lands or groves left. Even in a stainless barrel.If you did it to a regular steel barrel it would be toast. Even so you may have pitting.
Plus as mentioned getting it on your hands is not wise!!
OP
Dieselhorses
Member
Actually I only left it in for a few minutes. And yes I had severe lead fouling and yes I have rifling left (Not to mention I had to use the Chore boy to rid the remaining lead). Won't go there again!
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OP
Dieselhorses
Member
Sized 440 gr bullets
I checked rechecked my bullets, cylinder throats, bore etc... All this was ok the whole time. Started using H110 (even without GC's) and performance was a dream. Grouping 5 shots inside a 4 inch ring at 50 yards (one handed and with scope). Inspected bore and it looked as clean as it did before shooting! Loading some up with checks now, same powder, same load to see if I can get better accuracy.
I checked rechecked my bullets, cylinder throats, bore etc... All this was ok the whole time. Started using H110 (even without GC's) and performance was a dream. Grouping 5 shots inside a 4 inch ring at 50 yards (one handed and with scope). Inspected bore and it looked as clean as it did before shooting! Loading some up with checks now, same powder, same load to see if I can get better accuracy.
