Reloading the .38 S&W

[Inland7-45]

I just got started on a run of .38 S&W. Brass is once fired Starline. I have switched from 158 gr Cast lead rd nose and Accurate #5 to the Missouri Bullet Co 145 gr lead round nose and W231 this time around.

Cases have been trimmed to .775” . The 158 gr RN had a crimping groove so nothing to decide on overall length.

Since the Missouri Bullet Co. 145 gr does not have a crimping grove this leaves some questions on best OAL . Lyman manual shows 1.240” max OAL. I believe this is for their 195 gr rn.

An ancient 145 gr Remington factory round that I have measured 1.189”.
For my 20 round trial run this is where I set the OAL. After testing the trial run I will complete the remaining 480 prepped cases.

I would be interested in hearing from anyone who is using the Missouri 146gr. Has anyone on the forum confirmed what the ideal OAL should be when using the Missouri Co. bullet?

Also , I have just picked up 3lbs of W244 at a good price. Has anyone out there used W244 for the .38 S&W? Is there any source for published data for W244 and this bullet for the .38 S&W?

I will be firing the .38 S&W in an S&W BSR and a Colt Police Positive. I am having fun working with this caliber and I am looking forward to acquiring more revolvers in this caliber. First choice would be a J frame or later I frame.

 

[Alk8944]

Maximum L.O.A. is determined by cylinder length of the gun chambered for the cartridge that has the shortest cylinder, not bullet weight. The same LOA applies to all bullet weights for the cartridge, and with lighter than standard bullets it means nothing because they will usually be no where long enough to reach that length. The LOA has been established as a SAAMI specification by the member manufacturers of SAAMI.

You have a lot to learn about reloading.

 

[TheTinMan]

Find Missouri Bullet Company’s phone number. Call them to get recommended COAL.

 

[Krogen]

I suggest you use the OAL in your load book for a similar lead bullet of the same weight. The 38 S&W is pretty low pressure. If you're not using a top break revolver, you shouldn't have any trouble with excessive pressure due to seating depth. You will need to be sure the loaded round will fit in the cylinder.

What exactly is an S&W BSR?

 

[mmaher94087]

Are you talking about the .38 S&W or are you talking about the .38 S&W Special. These cartridges are not interchangeable. I don't think the .38 S&W cartridge is reloadable beyond about a 100 grain bullet.

 

[Igiveup]

We just loaded 450 rnds. with the Missouri bullets with new Starline brass. Used a Dillon press, and I just measured a random sample from a box and it is 1.15 for O.A.L. We used Unique powder at 3.2 grns. I have shot 60 of them so far out of a Victory revolver and the accuracy is very good. A hoot to shoot.

 

[glenwolde]

Are you talking about the .38 S&W or are you talking about the .38 S&W Special. These cartridges are not interchangeable. I don't think the .38 S&W cartridge is reloadable beyond about a 100 grain bullet.

The British service cartridge was loaded with a 200gr bullet. Bullet diameter is .361.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Are you talking about the .38 S&W or are you talking about the .38 S&W Special. These cartridges are not interchangeable. I don't think the .38 S&W cartridge is reloadable beyond about a 100 grain bullet.

For many years (and a few wars) the Brits used .38 S&W revolvers (Webley, S&W, probably others) with a standard bullet of 200 grains, referred to as the .38/200. As I recall, final versions used a 178-grain FMJ. Relatively low velocities, but close range penetration was apparently more than adequate.

Most of the factory .38 S&W ammo I've seen over the years was loaded with bullets in the 145-grain range.

My only experience reloading .38 S&W was back in the 1970s. Although most .38 S&W revolvers are regulated for bullets in the .360-.362" diameter range I found that cast lead bullets of .358" and 158-grain weight provided adequate results in S&W Victory lend-lease revolvers and a friend's .38 S&W J-frame (I think these were called the Terrier model or something like that).

Case head and case body diameter are also different than .38 Special. Although developed by Smith & Wesson, the .38 Special case was based on the earlier .38 Colt (long and short) which had been adopted by the US Army in the latter years of the 19th Century and was in wide usage at the turn of the century.

 

[DWalt]

The real issue is coming up with a load that shoots to the POA. I would not worry much about COAL. And I would postpone loading your prepped cases until you experimentally find a load that shoots close to POA. Start low and work up with different propellants in the fast to medium range. That may be difficult and time consuming with lightweight bullets. Remember that if your are shooting a BSR, you can load considerably hotter than most of the load recipes found in reloading manuals, up to .38 Special MV levels if you wish.

The prewar service loads used a 200 grain lead bullet (Mark I) while the WWII loads used a 178 grain FMJ bullet (Mark II) and therein lies the problem of shooting to POA with a 145 grain bullet. I have found that .358 lead bullets are satisfactory. You do not need .361 bullets. You might find some 200 grain .38 Special lead bullets and try them instead. You may get better results. Not much point in loading 500 rounds that can’t hit the target.

 

[Inland7-45]

.38 S&W

We just loaded 450 rnds. with the Missouri bullets with new Starline brass. Used a Dillon press, and I just measured a random sample from a box and it is 1.15 for O.A.L. We used Unique powder at 3.2 grns. I have shot 60 of them so far out of a Victory revolver and the accuracy is very good. A hoot to shoot.

Thank you very much for your reply. This answer is helpful. I do a lot of reloading with cast bullets. I started reloading for .38 S&W 2 years ago when I bought a Colt Police Positive in this caliber and later on a Smith and Wesson M&P. The S&W was made in early 1941. It has checkered walnut stocks and a commercial blue finish and 5” barrel, a pre Victory BSR.

I have already fired over 600 rounds between both guns. They are fun to shoot and are a real piece of history. I am also using Starline brass and was able to pickup 700 pieces of it at pre pandemic price. I have not fired any factory ammunition from these guns. My first run was with a 158 gr cast round nose from a Magma mold. This bullet has a short nose with more lead beneath the case mouth than the Lyman 160 gr. I sized them to .359” and followed Lyman’s data for the 160 gr RN. Completed cases were roll crimped on the crimping grove. They shot well.

I decided to try the MBC .361 145 gr so that I could get closer to duplicating the factory round. I have several rounds of very old .38 S&W and .38 Colt NP for reference. The .38 S&W rounds are full round nose and measure and 1.189 overall. The Colt NP marked round is slightly shorter due to it’s flat bullet point.

Since I have changed powder as well as bullet weight and diameter I have run a sample lot of 3 different charge weights to work up to maximum charge of 2.7 grains of W231. The bullets are seated and crimped in the same step with just a slight roll crimp.

I am confident that by seating to the same depth as the factory 145 gr bullet I will be safe just as seating slightly deeper would also be safe.

Glad to hear the the 60 rounds performed well. It will be a few weeks before I can get out to the range for a test fire.

Thanks again

 

[DWalt]

An important fact. The reason that US-made .38 S&W ammo uses 148 grain bullets is because it ALWAYS did, even back in the 19th Century. And that is what all revolvers made in the US were designed to shoot. On the other hand, BSRs were not designed to shoot the 148 grain US load but rather the British service load with heavier bullets. If you want BSRs to shoot to POA, that will not happen using the US 148 grain factory loads or equivalent handloads. The British Military always considered their .380 service load to be a completely different cartridge from the US .38 S&W civilian factory load even though it is dimensionally the same.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

You should go by SAAMI specs.

The max COAL cor the 38 S&W is 1.240" and as short as 1.150". Check you cylinder length and if necessary play with the OAL for the best accuracy.

IMO that is the best recommendation I can give you.

 

[Rule3]

Why not use the Hodgdon data for a 145 bullet and HP 38?
Or even consult an actual manual?


Reloading Data Center | Hodgdon




Reloading The .38 Smith & Wesson - Reload Ammo

 

[Model19man]

Cases have been trimmed to .775” . The 158 gr RN had a crimping groove so nothing to decide on overall length.

I load the Missouri bullet in the 38 S&W for my Enfield revolver. I use the SAAMI specs for OAL and a Lee FCD to crimp. The proper crimp tool for 38 S&W is the same one used for the 9mm Makarov round.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/SAAMI-Z299.3-2022-Centerfire-Pistol-Revolver-Approved-12-13-2022.pdf

 

[Inland7-45]

.38 S&W

Why not use the Hodgdon data for a 145 bullet and HP 38?
Or even consult an actual manual?


Reloading Data Center | Hodgdon




Reloading The .38 Smith & Wesson - Reload Ammo

Thank you for the lead on the Hogden and Reload site. This has some of the information that I was looking for. I would also like to thank the other forum members who replied with helpful answers specific to my questions.

For home cast bullets I use a mixed bag of Lyman, RCBS and a few Lee molds. When I buy cast bullets I try to stick with a design that is as close as possible to one offered by the mold manufacturers. This allows me to match components as closely as possible to at least the data in the Lyman and Speer manuals.

In the case of the .38 S&W there is the Lyman 195 gr RN which is a close duplicate of the .38 S&W Super Police and 38/200 BSR. The last that I checked this mold was still on back log. My long term plan is to buy the Lyman 195 gr when they become available again. In the meantime I decided to give the MBC 145 gr RN a try.
I started out by using data from the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook for their 150 gr SWC as this is the closest match.


As far as seating depth and OAL is concerned I think an OAL range up the OAL of a factory 145 gr round should work and I can confirm best accuracy with small test lots before completing the rest of the lot. The 158 gr RN that I used for my first lot printed low at 10 yards from both guns. It will be interesting to see how the lighter bullets print.

I am interested in hearing from other forum members who are fans of the British Victory Model, Colt PP and Banker Special, S&W Terrier and .38 RP as well as the Enfield and Webley top breaks.