REM 38 SPECIAL 110gr SJHP

[DeadAye]

Saturday I finally got to take the AR-15 that I traded a dead truck for and my never shot Yugo SKS out to a buddy's place out in the country. David has a nice set up with a berm and a piece of 1/4" plywood to staple targets to.

While I did want to zero both rifles in, the wind was out of the South at near Gale Force with heavier gusts and we had to shoot from West to East - Still, we both had a lot of F U N

Due to the wind (that's my story, and I'm sticking to it ) we were all over the targets (bull's eyes) from even 50 yards.
David remarked that we hadn't hit the red yet. I said "Oh yeah?" and pulled out my trusty old Bodyguard (M49) and put one dead center from about 10 steps away.

We were both surprised to see that the center of the target was now really reflective - VERY weird looking. So back to the targets we go and find that the reason for the shiny center was because about 80% of the bullet was sticking out of the target.
Yep - The 110 SJHP had NOT penetrated the 1/4" plywood

BUMMER! (And I've been carrying these for SD) They shoot point of aim out of the 49 from a few feet to 15 yards; but so what?
+Ps shoot WAY high out of that gun so now the quest is on for a 158gr SOO (Something Or Other) that will shoot POI at 10 paces from my constant companion....

 

[m1gunner]

Go with either a 158gr Keith bullet or the FBI load (also in 158). You will get good penetration, and gun will shoot to point of aim.

 

[Rule3]

Wrong bullet for Plywood hunting. Mushy nose.
But ya would think it would still penetrate 1/4" That is sad, maybe a bad batch??

Try some regular 125-158 JHP Gold Dots or Golden Sabers

 

[Rule 303]

The Agency I worked for in the 70s started issuing the Treasury Load, +P+ 110grn .38spl. Lots of bad shootings with it were they did not penetrate sufficiently to cause the demise of the Perp. About that time we went to Semi Autos and I was issued a Sig P220 and a Sig P230.

Rule 303

 

[Mike6735]

Of all the loads typically discussed for SD in 110 grain 38's, this load by Remington seems to be the least discussed, although the company specifically designed it for airweight J-frames, as I understand it. I guess this gets to the discussion of all non +p of 110 grains by all manufacturers- is 110 grains just too light for defense, regardless of power level of the round, or could we say the same thing about standard velocity, +p, and +p+, at this bullet weight, of all manufacturers?

My understanding was that, at least at +P+ levels, the Treasury Load was/is a fairly decent performer in 38 special.

 

[Gunhacker]

I'd loose the 110 grain loads period because the liabilities out number the benefits.

In addition to the performance problems already mentioned, they are known for being especially harsh on barrel forcing cones (erosion) because of the higher velocity they travel at (compared to heavier bullets). They really slam into the forcing cone after making the jump out of the cylinder. The type of powder used in those load with the light bullets also have a reputation for flame cutting the frame back strap because of it's faster burning rate and higher temps.

On K-Frames with the cylinder clearance cut at the bottom rear of the barrel making it so thin, they had a reputation of cracking the forcing cone in that area. J-Frames don't have that relief cut so I won't imagine they're as susceptible.

With the availablity of some excellent 125 Gr. SD ammo, the 110 Gr. stuff isn't worth the bother.

 

[blujax01]

So are you ruling out the .380 or most 9mm loads for SD?

 

[XTrooper]

Starting in 1982, the U.S. Border Patrol issued ammunition was the .38 Special +P+ 110gr JHP "Treasury Load." However, Border Patrol agents in the field started experiencing serious penetration issues with this ammo and in 1984 they started a search for a suitable (and superior) replacement. After extensive testing, the Border Patrol adopted the Remington .357 Magnum 110gr SJHP as its new ammunition of choice for their K-frame service revolvers and this ammo served them well from 1986 to 1994 when they transitioned to semi-automatic pistols. Besides the outstanding performance of this ammo in their testing, one of the other reasons they cited for choosing this load was, and I quote from Agent John Jacobs (retired), "we also knew that this was the round least likely to accelerate wear on our medium-framed Smith & Wesson and Ruger revolvers." It was also cited as having the lightest recoil of all the .357 Magnum ammo tested.

As you may or may not know, the U.S. Border Patrol is involved in more shootings annually than all other Federal LE agencies combined, so they naturally take their ammo choices seriously.

I guess the moral of the story is: If you're going to shoot 110gr bullets at bad people, make sure they are launched at a high enough velocity to guarantee good penetration and overall performance.

 

[Rule 303]

XTrooper,
I was in Criminal Investigator School at FleaTick when the first class of Border Patrol Cadets were issued their brand new different kind of handguns. Should have seen the look on their faces when they were handed a brand new, shiney Security Six instead of a S&W Model 19. The Border Patrol Instructors almost had a riot on their hands. We were sitting their shooting 2.5 inch Model 19s and the Border Patrolees were wanting to know if we would trade.

Rule 303

 

[cjw3]

SOO.....I like that acronym.

I have never been impressed with 110 grain bullets in .38 or .357 the few times I've fooled with them. Just not enough weight and too light construction to get reliable penetration. There may be some particular brands that are built with heavier jackets, but as noted there are many better heavier bullets available.

I've blown up a few small pests with handloads using them over the years and they do a GOOD job of that as long as you have adjustable sights to get them to land where aimed.

 

[XTrooper]

XTrooper,
I was in Criminal Investigator School at FleaTick when the first class of Border Patrol Cadets were issued their brand new different kind of handguns. Should have seen the look on their faces when they were handed a brand new, shiney Security Six instead of a S&W Model 19. The Border Patrol Instructors almost had a riot on their hands. We were sitting their shooting 2.5 inch Model 19s and the Border Patrolees were wanting to know if we would trade.

Rule 303

We in the NJSP went through the same thing. We went from 6" Model 10s (Highway Patrol) and Colt Official Police revolvers to 4" Ruger Security Sixes and we almost universally HATED them! Fortunately, we only had to carry them for about 2 years when we transitioned to autoloaders in 1982-83 (the H&K P7M8).

 

[papajohn428]

I've never been a fan of light bullets in any caliber, but I do try to keep an open mind, and test a bit of everything. One of the bigger surprises was the MagTech 95-grain all-copper HP load. As expected, penetration was nothing to write home about, but it wasn't all that terrible, either. I shot them through 4 layers of denim , then into several inches of wetpack, backed up by Duxseal. The wetpack had impressive craters where the bullets entered, and expansion from the 3-inch M-65 I shot them from was excellent. I initially bought them as a low-recoil load to help train smaller shooters, and even carried them in the 65 in the summer months.

These days, I seem to favor heavy-for-caliber bullets in all my duty/carry weapons, with a minimum of 135 grains in the 38. If you like the low recoil of the lighter bullets, the Hornady Critical Defense might be the best thing going in the 110-grain class.