Remember Nancy Lanza

[cussedemgun]

It has been said "The value of history lessons is so it will not repeat itself."

In remembering the tragedy that occurred at Sandy Hook School, why has NO ONE tried to fix the real cause?

I see "Obamacare" not as a fix to anything, merely a guarantee that the present system of pushing pills rather than treating mental illness will continue because of more & better funding.

Our society needs to pull our collective heads out of the sand. Demand a new & better mental health system that is available to all on a need basis. I say DEMAND, & take no second measures, it is for the good of all society.

 

[BigBill]

Brothers, the Newtown Sandy hook killings raised an awareness of the mentally challenged and violent video in what a senseless outcome can be.
When my kids were small my ammo and guns were locked up in two different safes. Just to be safe even more. I think it's fully on the gun owners responsibility that the guns and ammo should be locked up seperately and if there is a mentally challenged child in the house there should be no guns in the house.

It's not the guns that made this senseless crime happen. It's the owners decision of the owner that had guns in the house. Plus I think this child was too hard for her to handle. I think the woman did all she could but didn't seek more help.

Now the honest gun owners are paying the price for this crime. They need to register rifles that meet the assault weapon criteria made up by the state. Once a bill passed before allowed the members in this state to have 30rd detachable mags. For rifles its only 10eds now but we need to register that we still have the 30rd mags if we still want to keep them. The only time my larger mags were used is when were shooting soda cans. Now we have to register any pistol mag that's over 10rds too. We can have a 9mm 19rd mag but we can only carry the pistol with 10rds in it. We can load 19eds in it at the range only. The assault rifle ban list grew too. One gun that's added is the saiga sporting rifle. Mine are used for plinking, target shooting and hunting. So another awesome reliable semi auto is banned.
One state at a time the gun laws have been changing. For the honest gun owners only. Seeing this new required unforced by the state assault ban laws it makes me wonder what happens to the forms we fill out that goes to the state police and your local Leos when we purchase a firearm.

How more legal can an honest gun owner be if he or she has a ccw carry permit plus the ffl 03 federal collectors license?

I would rather see a nation wide ccw permit so we can carry in any state, buy any gun or ammo in any state. The gun shop can run this card thru a reader like a credit card. We don't need every state with confusing gun laws. It should be one gun law for everyone.

 

[PA Reb]

I believe the mental health issue hasn't been fixed and never will be fixed because there's not a living soul that knows how to fix it. The plain truth is easy to see - people who shouldn't have access to guns whether its those suffering from mental illness or those that have broken laws that forbid ownership will always be able to get their hands on guns when they want them. Also, where does one draw the line concerning mental illness / gun ownership? Should a person that suffers from a mild depression and takes medication for it be denied gun ownership? Should an individual that lives in the same house or is the relative of an individual that suffers from a mental disorder be denied ownership? Should ownership be denied to an individual that lives next door to someone that suffers a mental disorder be denied ownership? These are all big questions that can never be answered unless we throw the Constitution out the window. I'm definitely not a fan of the new healthcare law but I also don't think it makes a differance either way.

 

[Lenny_D]

I do agree that more money could be invested in the field of Mental Health but I'm also sure that it will not completely stop deranged people from commiting these horrible crimes. I can envision all sorts of abuses of persons and Doctors using the diagnosis of mental illness to push the anti gun ownership agenda. It just seems that there is a possibility of sliding down that slippery slope of abolishing our Second Amendment rights. After all the person responsible for the atrocity you site was an obvious disturbed individual to us but his own mother thought nothing of his "odd" behavior and furnished the guns he used. I blame her as much as him. How you let your son stay in a room with black plastic bags over its windows and play violent video games for hours at a time with the only communication being emails astounds me! Then on top of it you put money down on a gun for him for Christmas.
In order for the mental health system to work the person would have to be reported. Mrs. Lanza did not report her son. I hope this doesn't sound callus but we all say freedom isn't free. Most people attribute that remark to the lose of our soldiers lives in battles. I think it is also the lose of innocents at home too. I don't think there is anyway we stop madmen from doing what they will do. We can prepare better as far as protecting what we hold dear with armed guards but we'll never stop it. We choose to drive cars even though we know there are tens of thousands of people who die each year behind the wheel. Lives at war or at home is the price of freedom. I hope we never give that up.

Len

 

[cussedemgun]

You mean, "Not my problem -"

Seems to me a lot of folks would rather worry about the real problems they face in life;
like what to have for dinner, big macs again or maybe pizza

There has to be some thing more that can be done in medical research & treatment of mental illness.

From the posts so far, I am getting the feeling that if euthanasia were allowed, it would be the only alternative to ignoring the mentally ill in hopes they will just go away

Rather than condemning Mrs. Lanza, try to imagine what it would be like to love a child (altho a tough love) & still stand alone in society while wrestling with the choice;
1) take up bank robbing to be able to afford proper care.
2) wait for him to commit a serious enough offence to become imprisoned.

Sad but true, the prison populations have a alarmingly high rate of emotionally disturbed inmates because there is no proper care facilities for their keeping.

 

[Bat Guano]

I don't remember anything requiring her to furnish her demonstrably goofy kid with a stockpile of weapons and ammo.

Plenty of balls got dropped on that whole deal, but mama was an enabler in that atrocity.

That said, both the justice system and the mental health systems are jokes.

 

[Onomea]

Well, we have been down this road before on the forum. It is true that a much higher percentage of the prison population is mentally ill than of the general population. It is true that in the 1970s a lot of mentally ill people were discharged from asylums for the insane. Many of these became what we now call the homeless. It is also true that the vast majority of the mentally ill are not violent.

Better mental healthcare is needed. No question.

(I think we are going at national healthcare the wrong way. Rather than jack up insurance costs to those who actually pay for it -- a tax, as the Supreme Court ruled -- so that everyone can have it, including those who cannot pay for it, regulate health care costs. Institute tort reform. Benchmark medical procedure costs. Get the ridiculous costs under control...)

 

[mwtdvm]

Well, we have been down this road before on the forum. It is true that a much higher percentage of the prison population is mentally ill than of the general population. It is true that in the 1970s a lot of mentally ill people were discharged from asylums for the insane.

Actually there was a tremendous reduction in the number of mental hospitals/patients in the 1950's, twenty years before, with the release of one drug, Thorazine. It made the "voices" go away but did have a number of side effects. The patient felt they no longer needed the medicine and did not like the side effects. Of course in time they relapsed but getting them back on their meds resulted in them being able to function until the next relapse

 

[Irn-Bru]

I think laws have to be changed, but not for legal gun owners. Anyone in possession of an illegal firearm, or gun that doesn't belong to them goes to jail for 3 years. If you are caught again then its 10 years, then life. All these gangbangers would be cleaned up fast. Any kids caught messing around are not exempt, they must face the consequences too. The problem isn't legal gun owners, its the people who have them illegally that push the gun crime stats up.

 

[Hillbilly77]

I think laws have to be changed, but not for legal gun owners. Anyone in possession of an illegal firearm, or gun that doesn't belong to them goes to jail for 3 years. If you are caught again then its 10 years, then life.

A gun that doesn't belong to you?!
How do you propose to prove that one way or another? Give them the national registry that they want so badly?

An illegal gun, fine. One that "doesn't belong to you", thats a slippery slope.

 

[Hillbilly77]

As far as Mrs. Lanza, I refuse to condemn her.
She didn't break any laws.

Instead, I concentrate on the facts of that tragedy:

- The assailant tried to purchase a gun. He refused to complete the NICS check properly, so he was denied the purchase.

- He found a legal gun owner to victimize, and he did what criminals do - he murdered the gun owner and stole her guns.

- Then he took the stolen guns and committed more murders with them.

He'd have done it, no matter who he had to kill to get their guns.

His mother is innocent.

 

[walter o]

Innocent ? Just like the poor 25 year old mother that left 3 children in a cold apartment in CHICAGO and the under 1 year old dressed in a snow suit and strapped in a car seat died .I suppose the mother did nothing wrong.The other kids(2) under 6 were out looking for food and mommy.
It's never their fault ,When will we become responsible for whom we bring into this world .

 

[Cyrano]

Brothers, the Newtown Sandy hook killings raised an awareness of the mentally challenged and violent video in what a senseless outcome can be.
When my kids were small my ammo and guns were locked up in two different safes. Just to be safe even more. I think it's fully on the gun owners responsibility that the guns and ammo should be locked up seperately and if there is a mentally challenged child in the house there should be no guns in the house.

It's not the guns that made this senseless crime happen. It's the owners decision of the owner that had guns in the house. Plus I think this child was too hard for her to handle. I think the woman did all she could but didn't seek more help.

Now the honest gun owners are paying the price for this crime. They need to register rifles that meet the assault weapon criteria made up by the state. Once a bill passed before allowed the members in this state to have 30rd detachable mags. For rifles its only 10eds now but we need to register that we still have the 30rd mags if we still want to keep them. The only time my larger mags were used is when were shooting soda cans. Now we have to register any pistol mag that's over 10rds too. We can have a 9mm 19rd mag but we can only carry the pistol with 10rds in it. We can load 19eds in it at the range only. The assault rifle ban list grew too. One gun that's added is the saiga sporting rifle. Mine are used for plinking, target shooting and hunting. So another awesome reliable semi auto is banned.
One state at a time the gun laws have been changing. For the honest gun owners only. Seeing this new required unforced by the state assault ban laws it makes me wonder what happens to the forms we fill out that goes to the state police and your local Leos when we purchase a firearm.

How more legal can an honest gun owner be if he or she has a ccw carry permit plus the ffl 03 federal collectors license?

I would rather see a nation wide ccw permit so we can carry in any state, buy any gun or ammo in any state. The gun shop can run this card thru a reader like a credit card. We don't need every state with confusing gun laws. It should be one gun law for everyone.

I grew up in Connecticut and loved it; finally left when I entered the Army. This sort of horse hockey is why I live in Texas.

 

[Hillbilly77]

Innocent ? Just like the poor 25 year old mother that left 3 children in a cold apartment in CHICAGO and the under 1 year old dressed in a snow suit and strapped in a car seat died .I suppose the mother did nothing wrong.The other kids(2) under 6 were out looking for food and mommy.
It's never their fault ,When will we become responsible for whom we bring into this world .

A mother abandoning her helpless children and a mother getting murdered by her psychotic son are not the same thing - they are not even related.

Mrs. Lanza was murdered by a psychopath. I'd say that no, it wasn't her fault.
Since when do we assign blame to the victim of a crime?

 

[the ringo kid]

Can I chime in here on something?

If the Mother knew her son was mentally ill? then why on Earth did she purchase any weapons for him? True, she didnt ask to be murdered but--paved the way for her murder by buying weapons for the son. Was she not working in some capacity in the medical field? I hope she and the others are resting in peace. But the thing about her making those purchases in the first place? makes me ask: What was she thinking?

 

[Taurus627]

All this talk about mentally ill people has me asking one simple question.
Other than minors, how can a mentally ill person get the help they need if they themselves do not seek treatment?
It's no different than dealing with addicts. One must be willing to admit they need help, then seek out that help as we, as a society, can't really force anyone to look for treatment.

Unfortunately, it is another side effect of a free society!

 

[Alk8944]

A large portion of the problem is basically two-fold. The truly insane and criminally insane do not perceive themselves as having and will never seek assistance with mental issues.

The second part of the problem lays at the feet of the ACLU. In the 1960s the ACLU took upon itself the "rights" of several persons who were detained, incarcerated if you will, in several mental institutions. The premise was that insanity is not a crime and therefore those who had not yet committed a specific crime and been convicted could not be held against their will. Our Supreme Court, during the era known as the "Warren Court" agreed and the result was the virtual emptying of all mental institutions nationwide. Ever since there has been no way to remove these people from society. The other side of the issue is that many who were incapable of caring for themselves and have become a great portion of what has become known euphemistically as "Homeless".