Repeal NFA???

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jack the toad

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If you look at the origins of the NFA, it was clearly designed to sidestep Constitutional scrutiny by being called a "tax" (where have we seen that tactic in recent years... :rolleyes: ). The tax enacted, however, was designed to be a significant barrier to the average person, and the process of approval added even more barriers.

To this day, some people who can legally possess firearms are denied NFA applications, and there is no legal justification for it.

The language of Heller, and the more recent SCOTUS opinions put a huge broadside into the NFA, especially for suppressors and SBRs, which are clearly in "common use". The argument would also hold for machine guns, if new production hadn't been completely banned after 1986, causing prices to skyrocket.

Think of all the ATF resources that are currently focused on law-abiding gun owners that could be turned to actual criminal activity if the NFA were repealed.... I don't have high hopes, but I can still hope...
 
Rodan said:
To this day, some people who can legally possess firearms are denied NFA applications, and there is no legal justification for it.
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AFAIK, the only thing that would cause a denial is the item in question isn't legal in the State where it will be possessed.
I've gone through the process so I'm familiar with the hoops that have to be jumped through.
 
Rodan said:
The language of Heller, and the more recent SCOTUS opinions put a huge broadside into the NFA, especially for suppressors and SBRs, which are clearly in "common use".
Click to expand...

Speaking of suppressors...my state just changed a Fish & Game regulation; they legalized the use of suppressors for hunting. I would call that common use.
 
shocker said:
AFAIK, the only thing that would cause a denial is the item in question isn't legal in the State where it will be possessed.
I've gone through the process so I'm familiar with the hoops that have to be jumped through.
Click to expand...

I know a few NFA dealers in my area, and they all have customers that have been denied NFA applications who have no issues with the standard NICS check and are not prohibited possessors.

The only legal prohibitions on the possession of an NFA item are the same as those on any firearm. Yet the ATF denies NFA applications based on prior arrests for charges that were dropped, and for those that have had their rights restored, or whatever reason they decide or just make up. This is a subjective process, much the same as the NY statutes/practices that SCOTUS just determined unconstitutional.
 
dockmurgw said:
Speaking of suppressors...my state just changed a Fish & Game regulation; they legalized the use of suppressors for hunting. I would call that common use.
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The sheer numbers of NFA approved suppressors and SBRs in circulation establish "common use" by the Heller standard. If you include 'braced' 'pistols', the numbers are overwhelming.

Just, think about how the easy availability of suppressors would affect noise complaints for rifle ranges that are being crowded out of existence. ;)
 
I've told the story before. When I was my department's liaison to ATF I was asked to do followup on an NFA application. ATF had discovered an FBI rap sheet with an arrest for petty larceny 30 years before and wanted me to dig up the records and/or interview a knowledgeable person to determine if there were grounds to deny on the basis of moral turpitude. I was puzzled by this, since the applicant was the owner/licensee of a brick and mortar FFL. The only record remaining was a booking card which showed the charge and not much else. The arresting officer was long gone, so I interviewed the applicant. As a 17 year old he was walking home from a party in the early hours of a Saturday morning and was hungry. He saw the milkman making a delivery, helped himself to a bottle of milk and promptly fell asleep. The homeowner caught him and called the PD. He was booked and lodged. Since it was a holiday weekend he didn't see a judge until Tuesday. Reasoning that he probably wouldn't have been sentenced to more than 3 days anyway the judge released him with credit for time served.

Apparently this little escapade wasn't a problem when he wanted to move hundreds of handguns a month, but owning a MG required additional scrutiny. I guess if it had been a panty raid instead of a pantry raid they would have denied him.
 
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Is there any mechanism to fast track lawsuits so obvious violations of the 2nd A as it now stands with the recent ruling, can be smacked down quickly?

The ruling against the EPA applies to the ATF as well. Any way to speed up the process?

If the ATF makes an arbitrary change, how long of a process will the the whack a mole game be?
 
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Just like term limits for senators and representatives, this will happen without a change in the constitution, end of story.
 
glenwolde said:
If you read the details of United States vs. Miller you could see how it might be possible. Of course this will drive some people nuts.

United States v. Miller - Wikipedia
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Reading Miller, I could come to the conclusion that we (mere peons, citizens of the states) are entitled to own/carry/bear anything in the National Guard armory. Now I don't know about you guys, but I would love to have an M14, M60, the 14" 870, MP5, and some other neat toys....So if the militia (Nat Guard, State Guard) has it in their armory, we can have it too :D :D :D

After all, it is in common use for the defense of the nation....
 
smoothshooter said:
You have got to be kidding, right?

No way the NFA will ever be repealed.
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With respect, some people on both sides of this issue don't seem to live in the real world.

There are anti-gun types who fantasize about the government outlawing and banning this-or-that firearm, or even banning guns altogether...as if it would be legal, constitutional, and possible to disarm millions of Americans who've committed no crimes...

And then on our side of the aisle, we have folks who think that somehow or other, we can get Congress to repeal federal firearms laws, or abolish the ATF, or adopt some libertarian interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

Any of us has a better chance of spending a night on the International Space Station than we do of seeing the NFA repealed...
 
SAFireman said:
Reading Miller, I could come to the conclusion that we (mere peons, citizens of the states) are entitled to own/carry/bear anything in the National Guard armory. Now I don't know about you guys, but I would love to have an M14, M60, the 14" 870, MP5, and some other neat toys....So if the militia (Nat Guard, State Guard) has it in their armory, we can have it too :D :D :D

After all, it is in common use for the defense of the nation....
Click to expand...

70% of the voters would vote against appeal of any part of the NFA if put on the ballot. A lot of them would be regular gun owners, too.
 
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