I finally put in an order for 2,000 pulled MagTech 147 grain ball bullets, now I'm figuring out which other components I should get with all these free Hazmat offers on the net. I've got a growing pile of Korean 7.62 NATO brass I'm going to start processing, so I was curious what everyone uses to replicate/improve upon a standard M80 ball style load. The main use is cheap practice rounds for my three battle rifles, nothing to special. I like to keep CCI primers and IMR 4350 around for other loads and purposes, is there any particular things worth getting besides?
Replicating M80 Ball
- Thread starter Duckford
- Start date
bigggbbruce
Member
Do a search for .308/ 7.62 NATO you will find 20+ powders that will cycle any semi auto rifle, take your pick. Need more?
I use 4 or 5 different powders in the same gun. Can't feel much of a difference.
I use 4 or 5 different powders in the same gun. Can't feel much of a difference.
Ivan the Butcher
Member
Another alternative you might try is the 155gr PALAMA load I use match brass so you may need to fiddle with the charge a little. 47.0 gr Varget Federal 210M primer and Sierra 155gr Palma bullet (product #2156). This is a safe 2900fps in a 26" bolt action and I get 1.5 to 2" groups at 500 yards (1/4" or usually way less at 100yds). It has BC's like a 175 and recoil like a 147! (The load data is from Hodgdon, but it really works!) I shoot from a detachable magazine, so my OAL is as long as 1/16" (1.5mm) clearance allows!
Ivan
Ivan
fredj338
Member
IMO, 4350 is too slow for most gas systems. You want something a bit faster like 4895. Just a note on pulled bullets, mic them. They are often swaged down &/or over crimped in the original bullet seating. This makes for an inaccurate bullet.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I'm old so I like the older powders.
First I would go with IMR-4064, then IMR or H4895. BL-C(2) is also a good choice for bulk loading of 7.62 NATO ammo since it meters so well.
Of course if you are going to load a lot of ammo you will probably want to buy powder in bulk. I suggest WC 846 Surplus powder, but 2X or 4X 8lb jugs, mix them well and work up a few loads you won't have to change for a good while. It will save you a good bit of money.
First I would go with IMR-4064, then IMR or H4895. BL-C(2) is also a good choice for bulk loading of 7.62 NATO ammo since it meters so well.
Of course if you are going to load a lot of ammo you will probably want to buy powder in bulk. I suggest WC 846 Surplus powder, but 2X or 4X 8lb jugs, mix them well and work up a few loads you won't have to change for a good while. It will save you a good bit of money.
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boatbum101
Member
Screw the pulled bullets . You can find new 147 - 150gr FMJ for not much more like the Hornady 147 FMJ & if you buy in bulk they're even cheaper . I use them & Ramshot TAC or H4895 in all my 7.62 battle rifles .
DWalt
Member
These are the official Lake City AAP loads for the M80 (7.62x51mm NATO) with the 147(-3) grain bullet:
Early load = 41 grains of IMR 4475 (equivalent ballistically to IMR 3031, but IMR 4475 granules are smaller)
Current load = 46 grains of WC846 (BL-C(2) is the equivalent canister propellant to WC846). WC846 also is available as surplus propellant.
M80 mean MV = 2750 +/-30 ft/sec at 78 feet. CCI 7.62mm NATO-Spec #34 Military Primers are recommended.
COAL = 2.80"-0.03"
Early load = 41 grains of IMR 4475 (equivalent ballistically to IMR 3031, but IMR 4475 granules are smaller)
Current load = 46 grains of WC846 (BL-C(2) is the equivalent canister propellant to WC846). WC846 also is available as surplus propellant.
M80 mean MV = 2750 +/-30 ft/sec at 78 feet. CCI 7.62mm NATO-Spec #34 Military Primers are recommended.
COAL = 2.80"-0.03"
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Qc Pistolero
Member
Like said above,4350 is a little too slow for 7.62X51.Some even report damage to the piston done on some type of guns altough I don't remember which model they were referring to.
4895 ,4064,Varget and quite a few others are best suited for the job.
4895 ,4064,Varget and quite a few others are best suited for the job.
BlackTalonJHP
Member
My data matches DWalt's but I also have 41.5 gr of IMR8138 and 149gr FMJ for a third variation of M80.
I think M80A1 is loaded with SMP842 powder but don't quote me on that.
I think M80A1 is loaded with SMP842 powder but don't quote me on that.
ACP230
Member
When I was shooting matches I used H4895. 147 grain Winchester
overrruns, LG rifle primers (CCI first and then Remingtons) and Lake
City 68 cases. Chronograph checked velocity was 2660 fps. Ran the M1A fine and was accurate.
I miss NRA Highpower Matches. If my chronic diseases were to
disappear overnight, I'd be shooting them again this spring. I'd be
creaking my way to the line and the targets, but I'd do it.
overrruns, LG rifle primers (CCI first and then Remingtons) and Lake
City 68 cases. Chronograph checked velocity was 2660 fps. Ran the M1A fine and was accurate.
I miss NRA Highpower Matches. If my chronic diseases were to
disappear overnight, I'd be shooting them again this spring. I'd be
creaking my way to the line and the targets, but I'd do it.
I bought my lot at a price of 13 cents per bullet including shipping. But as I've been warned, I better measure my bullets when they come to see if they aren't that super cheap for a reason. I'm either stumbling into a great deal or I'm going to be taught a tough lesson in the nature of greed.
I was thinking IMR 4895, so I'm going to restock on some and try it out. Good recommendations here and elsewhere on forums I've checked, and its an old military powder. Plus I like the old IMR series anyhow. I've never heard of 4350 being too slow for autoloaders, I'll remember that and avoid it. Might have to mull getting some of that ball powder for a try sometime, do some real testing when the bench is out and the snow melts. The nearest store is 80 miles by road so I better get a list of this and that I want to try before I end up taking a trip.
If the bullets are swaged and smooshed, I'll come back to complain about it here where nobody is at fault.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
My Springfield M1A likes BLC-2 or H335, which I use pretty much interchangeably (as available during the availability drought of recent years), at 47.0 grains with the 147 FMJ-BT. Same point of aim and point of impact as GI ball ammo. No functioning problems.
This is a moderate load, not maximum as shown in my manuals, but you will want to start off at 44.0 or so and work up for your rifle, brass, bullets, etc.
This is a moderate load, not maximum as shown in my manuals, but you will want to start off at 44.0 or so and work up for your rifle, brass, bullets, etc.
Most likely your pulled bullets will be just fine for what you intend to do. I have shot thousands of pulled bullets in various calibers, weights, etc. for general shooting. If I am building match or precision long range, I use the best bullet I can buy.
4895, 748 or RL 15 is what I use to replicate M80 ball, buying 147 fmj’s in bulk. Cranked out 5,000 308 ball loads recently on my Dillon 650. Got a batch of 223 ball to load and then, I will be ready for spring.
4895, 748 or RL 15 is what I use to replicate M80 ball, buying 147 fmj’s in bulk. Cranked out 5,000 308 ball loads recently on my Dillon 650. Got a batch of 223 ball to load and then, I will be ready for spring.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
I have also had good results with pulled bullets. Can't tell the difference in function or accuracy.
Would have helped if the OP had specified what gas systems were in play. M1, best stick with the loads listed in post #3. 4350 by any maker will bend the op rod. I'm surprised 3031 didn't make that list (39 gr with 150 gr bullet) , but the data is still good.
The FN FAL/SLR has an infinitely adjustable gas system, should be able to make almost anything work, but 4350 is still best avoided.
The explanation of the vented revolver barrel in post 3 is a bit strange. Basically, the test barrel is vented by a gas port to provide the equivalent of a cylinder gap, the barrel doesn't have an actual gap.
The FN FAL/SLR has an infinitely adjustable gas system, should be able to make almost anything work, but 4350 is still best avoided.
The explanation of the vented revolver barrel in post 3 is a bit strange. Basically, the test barrel is vented by a gas port to provide the equivalent of a cylinder gap, the barrel doesn't have an actual gap.
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Black Sunshine
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Good info and thanks for posting it. My DPMS 24" Bull loves this stuff. I chrono'd with LabRadar and at 30yds, average velocity was 2808, so your info looks to be spot on.
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Black Sunshine
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Do you have the BC for the 149gr? I've only been able to find it for the 147.
I run an M1a, SA58 FAL, and a PTR91/G3. The M1a is always the issue with potential damage to the gas system with its preferred range, the FAL does indeed have a nice ability to adjust but a standard M80ish round will keep it on the same setting for laziness, and the G3 is just plain tough as nails and no gas system to worry about. The purpose, especially at this time of year with the snow, is simple offhand rapid fire. Doesn't need super accuracy, just needs to work and not hurt anything. Gotten into the practice of shooting a little 22lr pistol and rifle as well as at least 5 rounds of centerfire combat rifle every day off the front porch to keep proficiency.
I feed cheap steel through my AKM and C93 on their days of selection, factory new brass ammo through my M-16 clone. But at a minimum of 20 rounds a week of 7.62 NATO the savings in reloading are worth it. Cheap reloads will work just fine, and avoid any potential issues with steel cases and mostly premature barrel wear doing these types of rapid fire drills with cheap steel jacket bullets.
An article by P.G. Wrighter in EAGLE magazine, June, 1982, "SHORT CUTS FOR SURVIVAL HANDLOADING" has a lot of good info. The roller locked bolt of the German G3/HK91 works best with a faster suitable powder, like Reloder 7 or H335. Powders slower than IMR-4895 have more residual chamber pressure, which causes more case expansion. I used 43.0 grs. H335 with any bullet 150grs. or less in military brass in my Hecker & Koch HK91 with no issues. This works well in all rifles I have tried it in.
