Al Margheim
Member
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2020
- Messages
- 7
- Reaction score
- 12
Report on my S&W M&P 2.0 10mm with Timney Alpha trigger and Leupold Deltapoint Pro
I recently installed a Timney Alpha Competition Series trigger and a Leupold Deltapoint Pro on my new S&W M&P 2.0 10mm. Here are my thoughts on the experience, including a comparison with the Apex Flat-Faced Forward Set Trigger.
Warning: this is a fairly long post with a lot of detail and background info. Feel free to skip to the Conclusion section at the bottom, if you like.
Background
When I was a young enlisted guy in the Navy I learned to shoot Bullseye with guns that had pretty good triggers. For example I shot High Standard and S&W target .22s like the Military Citation and the S&W M41, S&W K38 target revolvers, and custom 1911 45s. After college I learned dynamic trigger skills from Chuck Taylor, Ray Chapman, and (more recently) Mark Fricke (American Firearms Training and Tactics). I need guns to have good triggers in order for me to shoot them up to their potential.
I have a Glock 20 10mm with a typical Glock barely-tolerable factory trigger and I have a Springfield Armory XDM 10mm that has a better-but-still-mediocre trigger. I like M&Ps so I decided to buy the M&P 10mm after handling them in a couple of gun stores. I planned to replace the factory trigger as soon as I had shot the gun enough to verify that the pistol didn't have any issues.
Last year I installed an Apex Flat-Faced Forward Set Trigger in my M&P 9mm Compact 2.0 and then I used it in two tactical classes during which I shot about 500 rounds. In total, I've put over a 1000 rounds through my M&P 9mm Compact since I installed the Apex trigger and I think the trigger and the gun together make an outstanding package. The Apex trigger is the best trigger that I've shot in a striker-fired pistol.
I would have happily purchased an Apex trigger for my M&P 10mm, if only Apex would support their triggers in the 10mm model. As of July 2022, Apex's web site still says "Not certified for use in the 10mm or .45ACP models." under the heading of Does Not Fit These Guns. I've put Timney triggers in several rifles and been very happy with them so I got a Timney Alpha Competition trigger to put in the 10mm.
I wear XL size gloves and M&P's fit my hand very well. M&P grips (both small frame and large frame) feel much better in my hand than Glock grips or Sig grips. Springfield Armory XDM grips feel decent, but not quite as good as the M&P. I would say that my M&P 2.0 9mm Compact and M&P 2.0 10mm fit my hand as well as any handguns that I've ever shot, including my once-beloved 1911s. The majority of the thousands of hours of time that I've spent with a handgun in my hand were spent holding, dry-firing, and shooting guns that have a 1911-type grip.
Installation
Installing the Timney Competition Alpha trigger in the 10mm was similar to installing the Apex Flat-Faced Forward Set Trigger Kit in the 9mm Compact.
The Timney came with a punch, a 0.05" hex wrench, and a slave pin to simplify reinstalling the trigger block. I appreciated Timney including the tools with the trigger. On non-optics ready M&Ps the 0.05" wrench is used to loosen the rear sight. I used the 0.05" wrench to remove the steel retaining plate that covers the safety plunger and spring in the optics-ready slide.
Installing the Alpha Competition trigger is not complicated and was reasonably easy to do. I have mechanical dyslexia so I have to approach projects like this with patience, care, research, and record keeping. Thankfully, even people like me can install a Timney or an Apex trigger in an M&P as long as the internet is up and online videos are available. I watched several general videos on disassembly and re-assembly of the M&P trigger mechanism and then I watched Timney's how-to video on installing a Timney Competition Alpha trigger in an M&P. I installed the trigger one step at a time, pausing and rewatching sections of the video until I was comfortable with what I was about to do in the next step.
The Timney installation video was pretty good. I was a little surprised that the slide lock in the video had a spring attached because that spring wasn't present on my 10mm's slide lock. I assume the spring was removed in an engineering update to the M&P 10mm. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.
Cosmetically, I think the Timney Alpha is a very nice looking trigger. Its lines are much more pleasing than the factory trigger and to me it looks somewhat nicer than the Apex. The Alpha has a relatively long take-up followed by a nice break with a little less than 3.0 pounds pressure, on the average (as measured in my gun with a Lyman digital trigger scale), however, the break on my Apex trigger is a bit lighter and crisper than the Timney trigger's. I can't see any significant difference in the quality between the Timney and Apex triggers. Both are high-quality.
After installing the Timney I shot 30 rounds through the 10mm. Since there were no problems I mounted the Leupold Deltapoint Pro. Installation of the DeltaPoint Pro was straightforward once I found the right instructions for the Deltapoint Pro in the M&P manual. The screws that held the plastic optic cover to the slide came out and went back in easily. The metal mounting plate provided by S&W for the Deltapoint Pro works and looks fine. The mounting screws that came with the Leupold screwed into the S&W plate just fine and haven't shown any tendency to back out. (I check the screws every time I shoot.)
Conclusions
I've put about 100 rounds through the M&P 10mm now with no problems and I am satisfied with the gun, the trigger, and the red dot.
The M&P 2.0 10mm fits my hand well and is more comfortable to shoot hot 10mm loads with than my Glock 20 or SA XDM. It would be nice if S&W would make a 5" version.
The Timney Competition Alpha trigger is a big improvement over the factory S&W M&P 2.0 10mm trigger, but I don't shoot it as well as the Apex trigger that's in my M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm. Maybe that will change after I adjust to the Timney's long first stage. Since the Apex's trigger break is a bit crisper and more 1911-like than the Timney's, I would buy the Apex Flat-Faced Forward Set Trigger over the Timney trigger, if Apex supported the 10mm.
So far, I'm quite pleased with the Leupold Deltapoint Pro. My eyes find the Deltapoint Pro's red dot faster than any other red dot sight that I have (including a Trijicon RMR, Burris Fastfire II, Bushnell RX100, and Bushnell RX250). I really like the Leupold's auto-shutoff/shake awake feature. Surely, shake-awake is a must-have feature on a serious-use gun. So far, the only negative I've experienced with the Deltapoint Pro is that the M&P's iron sights are obscured by the Deltapoint Pro.
My only real complaint about the M&P 10mm was that spare magazines weren't available when I bought the gun, but as I was working on this post (on 07/05/2022), Botach notified me that they had M&P 10mm mags in stock for $35. I ordered several.
I wanted a hard-hitting, hi-capacity, relatively-light, accurate handgun suitable for carry in the field and for hitting targets out to about 100 yards. I have that gun in my new M&P 10mm with the Deltapoint Pro and Timney Alpha trigger.
I recently installed a Timney Alpha Competition Series trigger and a Leupold Deltapoint Pro on my new S&W M&P 2.0 10mm. Here are my thoughts on the experience, including a comparison with the Apex Flat-Faced Forward Set Trigger.
Warning: this is a fairly long post with a lot of detail and background info. Feel free to skip to the Conclusion section at the bottom, if you like.
Background
When I was a young enlisted guy in the Navy I learned to shoot Bullseye with guns that had pretty good triggers. For example I shot High Standard and S&W target .22s like the Military Citation and the S&W M41, S&W K38 target revolvers, and custom 1911 45s. After college I learned dynamic trigger skills from Chuck Taylor, Ray Chapman, and (more recently) Mark Fricke (American Firearms Training and Tactics). I need guns to have good triggers in order for me to shoot them up to their potential.
I have a Glock 20 10mm with a typical Glock barely-tolerable factory trigger and I have a Springfield Armory XDM 10mm that has a better-but-still-mediocre trigger. I like M&Ps so I decided to buy the M&P 10mm after handling them in a couple of gun stores. I planned to replace the factory trigger as soon as I had shot the gun enough to verify that the pistol didn't have any issues.
Last year I installed an Apex Flat-Faced Forward Set Trigger in my M&P 9mm Compact 2.0 and then I used it in two tactical classes during which I shot about 500 rounds. In total, I've put over a 1000 rounds through my M&P 9mm Compact since I installed the Apex trigger and I think the trigger and the gun together make an outstanding package. The Apex trigger is the best trigger that I've shot in a striker-fired pistol.
I would have happily purchased an Apex trigger for my M&P 10mm, if only Apex would support their triggers in the 10mm model. As of July 2022, Apex's web site still says "Not certified for use in the 10mm or .45ACP models." under the heading of Does Not Fit These Guns. I've put Timney triggers in several rifles and been very happy with them so I got a Timney Alpha Competition trigger to put in the 10mm.
I wear XL size gloves and M&P's fit my hand very well. M&P grips (both small frame and large frame) feel much better in my hand than Glock grips or Sig grips. Springfield Armory XDM grips feel decent, but not quite as good as the M&P. I would say that my M&P 2.0 9mm Compact and M&P 2.0 10mm fit my hand as well as any handguns that I've ever shot, including my once-beloved 1911s. The majority of the thousands of hours of time that I've spent with a handgun in my hand were spent holding, dry-firing, and shooting guns that have a 1911-type grip.
Installation
Installing the Timney Competition Alpha trigger in the 10mm was similar to installing the Apex Flat-Faced Forward Set Trigger Kit in the 9mm Compact.
The Timney came with a punch, a 0.05" hex wrench, and a slave pin to simplify reinstalling the trigger block. I appreciated Timney including the tools with the trigger. On non-optics ready M&Ps the 0.05" wrench is used to loosen the rear sight. I used the 0.05" wrench to remove the steel retaining plate that covers the safety plunger and spring in the optics-ready slide.
Installing the Alpha Competition trigger is not complicated and was reasonably easy to do. I have mechanical dyslexia so I have to approach projects like this with patience, care, research, and record keeping. Thankfully, even people like me can install a Timney or an Apex trigger in an M&P as long as the internet is up and online videos are available. I watched several general videos on disassembly and re-assembly of the M&P trigger mechanism and then I watched Timney's how-to video on installing a Timney Competition Alpha trigger in an M&P. I installed the trigger one step at a time, pausing and rewatching sections of the video until I was comfortable with what I was about to do in the next step.
The Timney installation video was pretty good. I was a little surprised that the slide lock in the video had a spring attached because that spring wasn't present on my 10mm's slide lock. I assume the spring was removed in an engineering update to the M&P 10mm. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.
Cosmetically, I think the Timney Alpha is a very nice looking trigger. Its lines are much more pleasing than the factory trigger and to me it looks somewhat nicer than the Apex. The Alpha has a relatively long take-up followed by a nice break with a little less than 3.0 pounds pressure, on the average (as measured in my gun with a Lyman digital trigger scale), however, the break on my Apex trigger is a bit lighter and crisper than the Timney trigger's. I can't see any significant difference in the quality between the Timney and Apex triggers. Both are high-quality.
After installing the Timney I shot 30 rounds through the 10mm. Since there were no problems I mounted the Leupold Deltapoint Pro. Installation of the DeltaPoint Pro was straightforward once I found the right instructions for the Deltapoint Pro in the M&P manual. The screws that held the plastic optic cover to the slide came out and went back in easily. The metal mounting plate provided by S&W for the Deltapoint Pro works and looks fine. The mounting screws that came with the Leupold screwed into the S&W plate just fine and haven't shown any tendency to back out. (I check the screws every time I shoot.)
Conclusions
I've put about 100 rounds through the M&P 10mm now with no problems and I am satisfied with the gun, the trigger, and the red dot.
The M&P 2.0 10mm fits my hand well and is more comfortable to shoot hot 10mm loads with than my Glock 20 or SA XDM. It would be nice if S&W would make a 5" version.
The Timney Competition Alpha trigger is a big improvement over the factory S&W M&P 2.0 10mm trigger, but I don't shoot it as well as the Apex trigger that's in my M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm. Maybe that will change after I adjust to the Timney's long first stage. Since the Apex's trigger break is a bit crisper and more 1911-like than the Timney's, I would buy the Apex Flat-Faced Forward Set Trigger over the Timney trigger, if Apex supported the 10mm.
So far, I'm quite pleased with the Leupold Deltapoint Pro. My eyes find the Deltapoint Pro's red dot faster than any other red dot sight that I have (including a Trijicon RMR, Burris Fastfire II, Bushnell RX100, and Bushnell RX250). I really like the Leupold's auto-shutoff/shake awake feature. Surely, shake-awake is a must-have feature on a serious-use gun. So far, the only negative I've experienced with the Deltapoint Pro is that the M&P's iron sights are obscured by the Deltapoint Pro.
My only real complaint about the M&P 10mm was that spare magazines weren't available when I bought the gun, but as I was working on this post (on 07/05/2022), Botach notified me that they had M&P 10mm mags in stock for $35. I ordered several.
I wanted a hard-hitting, hi-capacity, relatively-light, accurate handgun suitable for carry in the field and for hitting targets out to about 100 yards. I have that gun in my new M&P 10mm with the Deltapoint Pro and Timney Alpha trigger.
