Rethinking 32 S&W long ---‐-‐-‐‐--‐---‐---‐-----‐-

[BC38]

An interesting thread. I was not aware that guys were punching out their original m31, to 32 HR magnum, but maybe its a thing, somewhere.

Maybe little different, than shooting Plus P 38 loads, in an old non Plus P frame?

Most of us have done that, and still have the 5 issued fingers, each hand, and two eyes.

Guys way back punched Colt 38 special I frames to 357 I was pretty young then, but that is comparing an already way heavier frame, to a pocket size frame, any heat treating and metallurgy differences, unknown, to most.

I doubt Smith uses the same heat treat, on their Plus P guns, as they did on the older J frame models, but maybe?

I studied the Lee book, comparing max pressures, for the 32 long compared to the 32 HR mag.

Heck, the 32 mag pressure, behind a 90 gr, is ONLY 11,180 CUP HIGHER, than the Long....

I have little doubt, Keith and Sharpe, both took some guns apart, in their early days, making "magnums".

As my old compadre used to note, "until you have pierced a few primers, ya dont really know what the max load is"....

In life, we pays our money, and takes our chances.

Yeah, I wouldn't ream any old revolver from the early 20th century, but I wouldn't be afraid to ream one that is new enough to be marked with a model number - as long as it was a garden variety shooter and not something rare or pristine.

 

[rockquarry]

A bit of a detour, but what about the .32-20? Not as harsh as the .32 Magnum but a bit more than the .32 Long. I realize neither Colt or S&W has chambered a revolver in .32-20 for a very long time. Is this because of overall cartridge length in small frame guns, lack of popularity, both those factors and more, or other reasons?

 

[Whistlebritches]

Yeah, I wouldn't ream any old revolver from the early 20th century, but I wouldn't be afraid to ream one that is new enough to be marked with a model number - as long as it was a garden variety shooter and not something rare or pristine.

Started thinking on the topic of guns coming apart, in my now near ancient past.

I have 32 20 guns, in both rifle, and handgun. Everyone note, 32 20!!!

But the "warning" might apply to the hot rodding 32 Long revolvers topic, which I have owned too, in the past.
Far as that, ANY home grown gun experiment, a lot of us can dream up.

Thinking back, I recall 2, either K smith, or I colt, 32 20 revolvers with a cracked chamber.

Logic would imply, someone got the then common 32 20 RIFLE ammo, in the revolvers, and Satan came calling, which he does every chance he gets.

I doubt any blood ran, when they cracked, but maybe some eyes opened?

SAAMI shows 16k pressure on the now "standard" factory ammo. I could not find pressure, on what was then considered "rifle pressure". Speer shows some rather snappy velocitys in their book, in the 32 20 rifle section, we can presume its over 16K pressure.

I have shot them in my vintage rifles, no problems, I load my revolver loads with wadcutter bullets, and the rifle loads with either jacketed, or the old school 112 grain round nose, as when brain farts happen, to NOT shoot them in the revolver.

If even the larger frame guns, cracked with mystery pressure "rifle" loads, it might tread into swimming with sharks, on conversions to a higher pressure round, in a small frame, having NOT been proven for higher pressures.

Lots of variables in play amigos. Its hot enough in northern NV, in the summer, a guys phone shuts down, simply walking around in the sun.

Heat on ammo, the pressure goes only one way, up! So, 110 in the shade, and a charging jackrabbit needs shot, it might explain why Smith advises to not shoot Plus P, in a not Plus P rated gun, which we likely have all done.

But perhaps not in 110, in the sun.. I hear lots of concern, about hunting in weather, that would keep an Eskimo under shelter, but little about what heat does to a rifle round.

One shooting rule I NEVER break, you younger shooters, never pop a round without wearing some kind of eye protection. Even factory ammo!

Ricochets, often come straight back, especially from a metal plate.

 

[rockquarry]

I wasn't speaking of using the hot rifle loads; I was referring to standard pressure loads. I suppose I should have made that clear.

 

[BSA1]

"Cheat" all you want. I guarantee you won't be able to block every shot with your skillet, and I'll poke you full of holes before you can even get within striking distance with the pan OR the knife. Especially if I have a low-recoil handgun in my hand.
It only takes a couple to the head or pelvis to put an assailant on the ground.

You obviously are a pistole extraordinaire but you have not described the distance that your proposed duel will start?

1800’s style starting back to back, take ten paces turn and fire?

Or the distance real world attacks usually occur? I’ll be generous and say five yards (and three yards is more likely).

Are you starting from real world conceal carry position? Gun in holster covered by a shirt/jacket? You are a law abiding citizen so you must comply with the rules of your State. As I am a criminal laws don’t apply to me.

Since you are a law abiding citizen I get to start the attack.

Maybe you will “poke you full of holes” but does that mean you are 100% confident that I still will not be able to reach you and render you unable to fight?

Since I am a cheater what if I get loaded up with drugs say amphetamines, cocaine or PCP?

You are a supreme marksman and your shots are lethal but as I have said don’t confuse lethal with stopping power. Is it a win for you if I die 1/2 hour after you do?

What about the unwashed masses that do not have the same calmness while under attack and the same marksman skill as you?

 

[BC38]

I give up.
You're right.
We should all start carrying knives & skillets.
They are just the thing to bring to a gun fight.
You win. Happy now?

You obviously are a pistole extraordinaire but you have not described the distance that your proposed duel will start?

1800’s style starting back to back, take ten paces turn and fire?

Or the distance real world attacks usually occur? I’ll be generous and say five yards (and three yards is more likely).

Are you starting from real world conceal carry position? Gun in holster covered by a shirt/jacket? You are a law abiding citizen so you must comply with the rules of your State. As I am a criminal laws don’t apply to me.

Maybe you will “poke you full of holes” but does that mean you are 100% confident that I still will not be able to reach you and render you unable to fight?

Since I am a cheater what if I get loaded up with drugs say amphetamines, cocaine or PCP?

You are a supreme marksman and your shots are lethal but as I have said don’t confuse lethal with stopping power. Is it a win for you if I die 1/2 hour after you do?

What about the unwashed masses that do not have the same calmness while under attack and the same marksman skill as you?

 

[old tanker]

A bit of a detour, but what about the .32-20? Not as harsh as the .32 Magnum but a bit more than the .32 Long. I realize neither Colt or S&W has chambered a revolver in .32-20 for a very long time. Is this because of overall cartridge length in small frame guns, lack of popularity, both those factors and more, or other reasons?

As much as I like the .32-20, ammo availability is what makes it impractical for most people. When Starline says, "Out of Stock / No Backorders at this time," even those of us who reload jealously gaurd every bit of brass like it was gold.

 

[rockquarry]

As much as I like the .32-20, ammo availability is what makes it impractical for most people. When Starline says, "Out of Stock / No Backorders at this time," even those of us who reload jealously gaurd every bit of brass like it was gold.

I've loaded the cartridge for forty or so years and have accumulated a good bit of brass. I'm sure others have, too.

It's unlikely the current shortages will last forever. I'm confident Starline and perhaps others will make brass available. There is still a demand for .32-20.

 

[Warren Sear]

As much as I like the .32-20, ammo availability is what makes it impractical for most people. When Starline says, "Out of Stock / No Backorders at this time," even those of us who reload jealously gaurd every bit of brass like it was gold.

I have all the 32-20 ammo I will ever need!

 

[oddshooter]

Hey Warren,
I'm assuming you meant 32-20. Or perhaps you are introducing us to your new caliber 32-23 which has 3 more grains of black powder.


I started shooting 32-20 as my first caliber in 1960 at the age of 11 in a little Texas cowtown, Albany. I thought I had enough 32-20 brass, but i was wrong.
With the quarantine of Covid, I got caught building 70 or 80 different recipes of 32-20 using dozens of powders and dozens of different bullets. 5 different powder weights for each recipe. each recipe with a dozen samples. I like having a large "library" of recipes to try in new guns. It makes it easier/faster to find the right recipe for the right gun. But I now have thousands of loaded 32-20 rounds, but no spare brass.
I ate up my supply until I get out to shoot more testing. It makes me nervous not having empty brass lying in wait.


Prescut

 

[Warren Sear]

Hey Warren,
I'm assuming you meant 32-20. Or perhaps you are introducing us to your new caliber 32-23 which has 3 more grains of black powder.


I started shooting 32-20 as my first caliber in 1960 at the age of 11 in a little Texas cowtown, Albany. I thought I had enough 32-20 brass, but i was wrong.
With the quarantine of Covid, I got caught building 70 or 80 different recipes of 32-20 using dozens of powders and dozens of different bullets. 5 different powder weights for each recipe. each recipe with a dozen samples. I like having a large "library" of recipes to try in new guns. It makes it easier/faster to find the right recipe for the right gun. But I now have thousands of loaded 32-20 rounds, but no spare brass.
I ate up my supply until I get out to shoot more testing. It makes me nervous not having empty brass lying in wait.


Prescut

Ooooops! Fixed it. Thanks for the correction. I should have just called it 32 WCF!

I have about 350 brass casings (most are loaded at present), which is more than enough for me.

 

[BSA1]

BC38 ,

No need to carry a skillet and large kitchen knife. Whole lot easier just to carry a gun in a more powerful cartridge. Actually I think we are in agreement about the shortcomings of the .32 Long for self-defense.

I think your suggestion you made way back in Post 98 about recutting the chambers on a .32 Long to accept the .32 Magnum is excellent idea. It is a practical, more affordable way for folks that have a small leftover budget. That way the owner can shoot .32 Long for training and practice and then carry .32 Magnum ammo for self-defense in the same gun. Just the usual warning to clean the lead from the shorter .32 Long before using the Magnum round.

 

[BSA1]

A bit of a detour, but what about the .32-20? Not as harsh as the .32 Magnum but a bit more than the .32 Long.

The .32 Magnum is basically designed to give similar performance of the 32-20 only in modern, easier to manufacture straight wall case.

Hornady lists 80 gr. FTX at 800 fps. from 4” barrel.

Federal lists 85 gr. JHP at 1120 fps. from 5.5” barrel. That is flat out hot performance.

I don’t know of any commercially made 32-20 ammo designed for self-defense.

I realize neither Colt or S&W has chambered a revolver in .32-20 for a very long time. Is this because of overall cartridge length in small frame guns, lack of popularity, both those factors and more, or other reasons?

Yes.

Also the 32-20 case is harder to manufacture and reload.

 

[Chubbs103]

The .32 Magnum is basically designed to give similar performance of the 32-20 only in modern, easier to manufacture straight wall case.

I just bought a .32H&R Single Six this year, then fell into a decently priced Marlin 1894. I wish I had discovered this caliber 30 years earlier. I'm finding a fair amount of versatility and I'm still working up loads.

It can also be pretty fun.

 

[Lucnic]

When I first started carrying conealed, my gun was a 31-1 in 32 long.

Eventually I switched to more powerful guns up to a 357 magnum LCR and a 60-15.

I figured the 32 long cartridge was too weak to be viable.

I'm start to see multiple gel tests showing 32 long caliber guns loaded with wadcutters like the 100 gr Buffalo Bore hard cast turning in 18" penetration numbers. And other, less powerful 32 long loads from other loaders getting penetration numbers in the 12" - 14" range. Similar with round nose flat points

So is 32 S&W long really not viable?

I thinking of dusting off my 31-1 and carring it again.

I've always shot it faster and more accurately than any other J frame.

Plus the square butt stock grip fits my hand well.

Comments.

Own one too. Same setup. BK grip adapter, 3” loaded with 100’gr. BB hard cast wad cutters in a Strong pancake holster. I like it. It’s not my SP-101 or 642 but I think it’ll get the job done.

 

[BC38]

We may not be all that far apart in our opinions.

As I have previously stated, I agree that carrying a more powerful caliber is a better choice - AS LONG AS YOU CAN.

But for those who CAN'T, maybe a hot .32 is better than a skillet and a butcher knife?

JMO, and YMMV.

BC38 ,

No need to carry a skillet and large kitchen knife. Whole lot easier just to carry a gun in a more powerful cartridge. Actually I think we are in agreement about the shortcomings of the .32 Long for self-defense.

I think your suggestion you made way back in Post 98 about recutting the chambers on a .32 Long to accept the .32 Magnum is excellent idea. It is a practical, more affordable way for folks that have a small leftover budget. That way the owner can shoot .32 Long for training and practice and then carry .32 Magnum ammo for self-defense in the same gun. Just the usual warning to clean the lead from the shorter .32 Long before using the Magnum round.

 

[Whistlebritches]

I want to note, its not every forum, that the rules for "modern dueling" are discussed

From what I have read, even when they did it, rules, were kind of subjective.

The 32 20, is great! In a revolver, reminds me of the trajectory of a 22 magnum, and similar noise and recoil.

I lucked into a couple of original Marlin 1894 rifles, and later relined a couple of 1892 beater winchesters.

Dont shoot them even once a month, maybe a couple times a year, but they are not getting sold by me, and after I see the roots, it wont matter.

We tend to forget that little fact, on a lot of lifes issues.

Way back, when I could still walk good, we shot spotlighted jackrabbits at night. The hay growers loved it.

Didnt have the 32 20s then, but boy if I could go back in time.

Starline brass is a few thou short. but its better than no brass at all.

I paid scalper price for some Hornady, back at the last component shortage, as I was shooting a lot of 17 Ack Bee.

Sadly, brass does get brittle after a couple or three decades.

A shooter should always "save money" and buy now, cause next year, inflation forces higher price.

 

[Whistlebritches]

FWIW, I dont buy new reloading books every year, but the 32 20 ISNT the easiest one to find data for.

And the only one comes to mind, with the snuffier load data, the only book I recall, that has them, is the #14 Speer. Cart of the World might show a few, if it does, very few powders listed.

I have a couple of "cowboy load" specialty printings, but they are sure on the barely clear the muzzle loads.

The "ancient" references usually show it, but powders that Nimrod used, and no longer available.

Its a sad fact, those night rabbit shoots, are long past, not likely to return, so the low pressure loads will do just fine, for paper, and targets and plinking.

 

[BC38]

FWIW, I dont buy new reloading books every year, but the 32 20 ISNT the easiest one to find data for.

And the only one comes to mind, with the snuffier load data, the only book I recall, that has them, is the #14 Speer. Cart of the World might show a few, if it does, very few powders listed.

I have a couple of "cowboy load" specialty printings, but they are sure on the barely clear the muzzle loads.

The "ancient" references usually show it, but powders that Nimrod used, and no longer available.

Its a sad fact, those night rabbit shoots, are long past, not likely to return, so the low pressure loads will do just fine, for paper, and targets and plinking.

I don't personally own anything chambered in 32-20 Winchester. The caliber always seemed a bit too obscure and obsolete to attract my interest.

But if there is reloading data available that is suitable for target work - for accurately punching holes in paper - wouldn't those same loads work equally well on small game?

I mean, it isn't like a rabbit is a hard critter to kill. As long as the load is accurate out to 50 or 75 yards, it seems to me that it would be more than adequate for harvesting those wascally wabbits.

Maybe I'm missing some important point. It certainly wouldn't be the first time...

 

[AJ]

I just bought at the local gun show a S&W Model 30-1. Not cosmetically pretty, but mechanically perfect. Looks to have been carried a bit and not cared for very much. Will take it to the range next week to see how it shoots. Hopefully very good. Why did I buy it, you ask? Well my S&W 342 hurt to shoot with just .38 Special ammo. Hands are beat up from shooting a gazillion big bore rounds and arthritis is in full bloom. My Model 60-7 gets a bit heavy in my pocket when wearing shorts and a tee-shirt (official Florida Uniform). So had been thinking of a .32 for a while. Found the above mentioned and the seller was asking $325+tax OTD. We settled on $300 even OTD. I am happy and he is happy. Now I have another carry/truck gun.

Got the Granddaughter who is 5 foot nothing and little (she is 22) an Taurus H&R .32 Magnum for the carry and home. She likes it a lot and shoots it well.