Review of Buffalo Bore 38 spl. 158gr Standard Pressure

[Dragon88]

This video was just posted by one of my favorite Youtubers, and I thought it might be interesting to some folks here. Many times the Buffalo Bore 158gr standard pressure load is recommended for people with non +P rated revolvers. I know I have recommended it in the past. While on paper this load looks good, actual results in ballistic gelatin are quite eye opening.

Buffalo Bore .38 Special 158 gr Semiwadcutter Ammo Test

 

[NiklasP]

Thank you for link, Dragon88!!

I have been loading that bullet at much higher muzzle velocity (1200 fps to 1400 fps) and get decent groups at 20-40+ meters. Been wondering how it would perform at much lower velocities, say 1000-1100 fps, maybe even 900+ fps. Looks like a I can expect excellent expansion at around 1000 fps and maybe total loss of front end at much higher velocities, with solid base carrying on for deep penetration.

Thanks again,
Niklas

 

[chief38]

Dragon88,
I have been a big fan of the Buffalo Bore ammo for 3 years now. Before I use ANY load for self defense I test them through my Chronograph, test for accuracy, recoil, consistency and reliability. I came out with almost the identical test results as you have.

I also carry BB 158 grain +P Heavy loads on my M60, as well as their 180 gr. and 158 gr. .357 Magnums in my 3" M65. Every product that I have ever tested of theirs proves to be as good if not better than they advertise! In fact, they are just about the only bullets that I can recall that actually do what the manufacturer states. I have even written to Tim Sundles complimenting him on his EXCELLENT products and truth in advertising. REALLY GOOD STUFF!!!

Chief38

 

[indiandave]

I'm also a fan of Buffalo Bore. The standard pressue 158gr LSWHP's get used in all my carry guns.

I carry some older revolvers. Their non plus p loads work out well for me.

I also haye artritis in my thumb joints. The standard pressure load gives the prefomance of the FBI load with less recoil.

 

[Dragon88]

Initially I actually had a negative reaction to the gelatin test. 18" of penetration with minimal expansion of the hollow point seems a bit excessive to me. What do you guys think?

 

[CQB27]

Initially I actually had a negative reaction to the gelatin test. 18" of penetration with minimal expansion of the hollow point seems a bit excessive to me. What do you guys think?

I think that since 12 to 14 inches is what you really need to be consistantly lethal (assuming good shot placement) and most americans are on the "Heavy Side", 18 inches is a good thing.

The hollow point most likely did not expand effectively because the cavity was filled with denim, sometimes this happens.

I would carry that round for self defense with no worries.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Here are my thoughts on the matter, FWIW. Ballistically, the standard pressure BB load is similar to the FBI +P loads by the other manufacturers, give or take. The FBI load has a good track record of stopping violent attackers. I can't recall ever reading about the FBI load overpenetrating when fired in self-defense from either a snub or a duty-sized revolver. It may have happened, but I'm not aware of any such incidents. I generally agree with the 12"-14" optimum range, but I can't ignore actual results. Human beings are not homogenous in construction; we have bones, blood vessels, ligaments, tendons, organs, etc., with varying degrees of resistance.

While these results have me a little concerned about possible overpenetration, I'll stick with BB ammo in my K-frames for the time being.

 

[Dragon88]

Thanks for the comments guys. The performance from this round out of a 2" barrel is quite impressive. I think if the bullet struck bone or dense tissue, a strong possibility when shooting center mass at the rib cage, the threat would be stopped quite immediately. I would just be concerned about that perfect clean pass through shot that exits the bad guy and keeps going.

 

[carbofan21]

The lead on the buffalo bore .38 is bright and shiny, which suggests a high level of antimony. Higher levels of antimony in lead alloy makes it harder and more brittle. The remington load is much darker, and softer. Personally I wouldn't expect the buffalo bore load to expand reliably. You might get minimal expansion, or else the hollowpoint cavity could shear off completely and behave like a wadcutter.

 

[chief38]

I am more concerned about adequate penetration, speed, weight and shock power than weather or not the bullet expands. BB has the 158 gr. weight, the speed, and certainly the shocking power you want in a bullet. If it does expand, all the better, but the results are impressive just as they stand. By the way, the bullet did expand a little, but remember there are no bones in gelatin. I use BB ammo 100% of the time now in all my carry guns. As I stated above, I have tested them and chronographed them through my personal carry weapons and was quite impressed. The Rem. Win and Fed. FBI loads are WIMPY to say the least compared to the BB ammo.

BB +P 158 grain SWCHP comes out of my 2" M60 at an honest 1040 fps, where as the "Big Three" FBI loads come out at less than 800 fps from the same gun. That is a HUGE difference (30 percent increase!!!) and for me that is why I use the BB brand. The load being discussed here is the NON +P which comes out of my 2" M60 at 845fps - FASTER THAN THE "BIG THREE" +P loads. IMHO the big 3 ammo Companies are more concerned with product liability (use of modern ammo in older guns) than they are with improving their product. What Tim Sundles of BB has done could have been done many years ago by these large Companies, but they chose not to. BB's ammo is engineered right and Tim has done his homework here!!

Chief38

 

[carbofan21]

You may as well save your money and carry wadcutters if all you're concerned about is penetration. As to "hitting hard" the only difference between any of these low velocity loads will be the amount of heat transfer.

The remington, federal and winchester "fbi loads" penetrate plenty, even with full expansion.

 

[sureshotbob]

Thank's for a great post and link !!!! I've been a fan of that load for a few years now so much so that I've picked up 12 boxes of them when Cabela's had them on sale for $20.00 a box they normaly go for over $25.00.

 

[carbofan21]

The lead on the buffalo bore .38 is bright and shiny, which suggests a high level of antimony. Higher levels of antimony in lead alloy makes it harder and more brittle. The remington load is much darker, and softer. Personally I wouldn't expect the buffalo bore load to expand reliably. You might get minimal expansion, or else the hollowpoint cavity could shear off completely and behave like a wadcutter.

I don't have a BHN testing kit, so I did a little digging on the interweb about the brinnell hardness numbers (BHN) of the commercially available "fbi" loads. The lower the BHN, the softer the lead.

Buffalo bore supposedly uses the rimrock bullet, which claims a BHN of 5 (VERY soft, along the lines of pure lead). The remington load, according to various sources, measures to a BHN of 10. The winchester load is listed between 11 to 12, and the federal load is listed as anywhere between 9 to 14. For comparison, many hardcast loads measure to around 22.

A few years ago I tested the 158+p buffalo bore load in wetpack media (soaked phone books and newspaper) and water jugs. I also tested some 135gr+p speer gdsb and some remington 158gr+p lswhp for comparison. Granted, this was not the most scientific testing, but I just wanted to see what each load would do for comparison.

I couldn't get any of the buffalo bore to expand. The hollowpoint either plugged or fragmented and sheared off. At the time I attributed this to the lead being much harder and more brittle than the other fbi loads, but I understand now the lead is actually much softer. The remingtons expanded reasonably well and stayed in one piece. The speer gold dots opened up every time, which impressed me for being a bonded bullet. All rounds were fired from about 10 to 12 feet from my s&w 642.