REVOLVER "TURN" RING

erk

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New to revolvers. Why do all/most exhibit a "turn" ring around the cylinder? Looks like something must be dragging when the cylinder rotates. I'd of thought that by now, some one would have engineered the mechanics so that didn't happen. Am I missing something?
Thanks for help
Ernie
 
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It's the cylinder catch located on the bottom of the frame above the trigger. The only way to prevent it is to not rotate the cylinder which is what most collectors do.
 
The cylinder stop bolt rises and catches the notch. Back when they had skilled craftsmen assembling the revolvers they would adjust the bolts so that they timed properly and would cause minimal wear on the cylinder finish. But as years passed and cost cutting took over they didn't bother and the bolts simply ride over the cylinder in constant contact causing the wear pattern called a turn line.

Many of my revolvers from the 1950s have minimal turn lines, just a tiny dash leading into the bolt notch. On the other hand, my Model 25-2 made in 1980 has an actual groove worn in the surface of the cylinder from constant contact of the bolt.
 
I have a beautiful 1st generation Colt Single Action restored by Doug Turnbull with the action tuned by Hamilton Bowen. I have turned it several times and there is no turn ring. It has an action that is butter smooth. It seems that the proper care in timing as Saxon said is the reason. I also have a pre war HD that has quite a bit of holster wear on it but very little turn line.

Tom
 
As Saxon stated with careful hand fitting of the cylinder stop bolt one could minimize the drag on the cylinder. I have a few pre WWII revolvers where the line starts just prior to the lead for the cylinder notch.

At today's L&O rates one would have to double the price of a revolver if one wanted all the parts hand fitted. Few people would be willing to pay for such craftmanship.
 
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It's true that the action pulls the bolt down when the cylinder is turned by it, but if the cylinder has been opened the action has left the bolt up and it will mar the cylinder when it is closed again until the action can get the timing straightened out again (unless you are very careful to line up the bolt to hit the notch when you close the cylinder).

RonJon
 
According to Roy Jinks the turn line is an indication the revolver is working properly. The cylinder stop is designed to ride on the cylinder and the line is not an indication of a poorly timed revolver. I am sure a gun could be tuned to drop the bolt at the last possible second but would probably lead to lockup problems if fired in rapid double action. As Roy has often mentioned S&W was in the business of selling guns not pleasing collectors, reliability was their goal not pleasing fussy collectors.
 
Collectors are not fussy, usually.
Anal, yes. Fussy, no.

FYI-
S&W terminology:
"Cylinder Stop" = the little half round thingy in the bottom of the frame that clicks into the notches on the cylinder, and/or makes the turn ring.

"Bolt" = the thingy that helps you open the gun when you push the thumb latch. Open the cyl, and you can see the end of it in the center of the recoil shield.

Colt terms differ, as I recall, but who would expect Colt to know anything?
 
I'm not an engineer. Any metal part that engages another to lock them together is a bolt to me.

Sorry if that's incorrect terminology but... let me check now... yup, too old to change or care.
 
I think it is important to realize that the cylinder stop has to engage the face of the cylinder some distance before the notch in the cylinder. Not only does it have to engage before the notch, but it needs a decent amount of spring tension forcing it against the cylinder. That arrangement will necessarily cause some kind of turn ring.

If this were not the case, and the revolver is cycled very quickly (as in fast double-action shooting), the cylinder will "throw by" because the stop did not have time to fully engage the notch, or the spring was too weak to force it into the notch. That might cause the gun not to fire and to skip over a perfectly good cartridge. Or worse, the gun might fire, but with the cylinder slightly misaligned with the forcing cone!

Even if the stop engages with the notch enough to stop the cylinder, you still want the stop to engage deeply enough into the notch if you are doing fast, double action shooting. Otherwise, the quickly rotating cylinder will slam against the partially engaged stop, and the edges of the cylinder notch will eventually be peened.

I would much rather have a slight turn line and a gun that works perfectly, than a gun with peened cylinder notches or a gun that can't be trusted to fire quickly.

Colt revolvers tend to drop the stop pretty late in the process. And sure enough, you get less of a turn ring, but it is not difficult to get them to "throw by" with a very fast DA trigger pull.

If the turn line really bugs you but you still want to shoot the gun, you can avoid some of the ring by not rotating the cylinder by hand after closing it. Rotating by hand drags the stop against the cylinder until it finds a notch. Instead, align the cylinder so that the stop falls into the notch as you close it. Or close the cylinder and then, without manually rotating the cylinder, cock the hammer, which will lower the stop away from the cylinder face until it drops onto the cylinder in the normal place. However, you will still eventually get something of a ring just before the notch, since the mechanism must drop the stop before the notch if the action is cycled.

I suppose you could also partially draw back the hammer to retract the stop, then manually rotate the cylinder into alignment with the forcing cone, and then complete the cocking of the hammer with the stop cycling and then dropping directly into the notch. That would completely eliminate a turn line, but you would still get assorted wear marks in other places from shooting the gun.

Frankly, I like to see normal looking turn lines. That's honest wear for a shooting gun. If I didn't want a turn line, I wouldn't shoot the gun in the first place.
 
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Back when they had skilled craftsmen assembling the revolvers they would adjust the bolts so that they timed properly and would cause minimal wear on the cylinder finish. But as years passed and cost cutting took over they didn't bother and the bolts simply ride over the cylinder in constant contact causing the wear pattern called a turn line.

This may be possible, but doubtful. EVERY Registered Magnum I have seen that has been used (and I have seen quite a few) always had a much more pronounced "turn line" than other S&Ws of almost any vintage.

I agree with the other poster and his quotation of Roy Jinks - a turn line is evidence of a properly functioning revolver.

Turn lines do not cause me any concern whatsoever, nor does any other "honest use," such as black rings on the face of the cylinder.

What is a BIG problem is bunged screws, drag lines around screw holes, evidence of over polishing or over cleaning, rough edges on a side plate from improper removal or reinstallation, etc.

Do not worry about turn lines. It means things are working well!
 
According to Roy Jinks the turn line is an indication the revolver is working properly. The cylinder stop is designed to ride on the cylinder and the line is not an indication of a poorly timed revolver. I am sure a gun could be tuned to drop the bolt at the last possible second but would probably lead to lockup problems if fired in rapid double action. As Roy has often mentioned S&W was in the business of selling guns not pleasing collectors, reliability was their goal not pleasing fussy collectors.

Listen to the above post - it is dead spot-on.

~ But my question is why do my SAA clones have a complete turn ring?
A single-action revolver should not have a complete ring on its cylinder.
Starting with the hammer down and bolt in notch you start cocking the hammer and the bolt withdraws completely down into the frame and the cylinder starts turning. Then, after the cylinder has turned about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way, the bolt comes back up to make contact with the cyl. again. Pretty much like a DA revolver does. But...the only time you can turn a single-action's cylinder by hand is when it's at half-cock. And the bolt is always completely withdrawn at half-cock.

The only possibility I can think of is that the previous owner lowered the hammer down after falling short of bringing the hammer to full-cock and then turned the cyl. by hand backward to let the bolt drop into the notch.
But if this is the case, then he did it often...because there is a complete line around the whole cylinder!
 
I'm not an engineer. Any metal part that engages another to lock them together is a bolt to me.

Sorry if that's incorrect terminology but... let me check now... yup, too old to change or care.

You can call a rose a 'potato', and it shall still smell as sweet, but it might be hard for us to converse and understand each other. ;)
 
According to Roy Jinks the turn line is an indication the revolver is working properly. The cylinder stop is designed to ride on the cylinder and the line is not an indication of a poorly timed revolver.
Many of my revolvers from the 1950s have minimal turn lines, just a tiny dash leading into the bolt notch. On the other hand, my Model 25-2 made in 1980 has an actual groove worn in the surface of the cylinder from constant contact of the bolt.

Well, there you have it. Yes, in a perfect world every seed planted would sprout, none of our kids would have cavities, and the cylinder stop wouldn't drag on the cylinder as it turns. But the reality is...well, you know. As far as any practical impact on the function of your revolver, forget it. You're better off spending your 'mind time' on which load should be your carry-load, or whether or not you should get a good trigger job.
 
Well, there you have it. Yes, in a perfect world...the cylinder stop wouldn't drag on the cylinder as it turns.

No, no, no...you're a little off on that. We want the cylinder stop to drag on the cylinder. We just don't want to see the line.... ~ ;)
 
This discussion has been very helpful to me. My other two revolvers are stainless so the ring is not very visible. Just purchased an older Model 36 that is blued and noticed the cylinder ring which made me wonder if there was an issue.
 
Welcome aboard Carolina! As you cruise this forum you will note that many, many things of little consequence are discussed at great length here! Heck, there was one thread about squashing a bug that went on for three pages! I hope you enjoy the mayhem that ensues! BTW, there ain't no better place on the intertubes than this here place.

Also, this is Post 2000 for me. Thanks, Lee, for puttin' up with my BS!
 

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