RMR vs Laser Sights

[miss_fire]

Best Advice Posted Yet

Virtually all civilian armed self-defense encounters occur at distances and at speeds where threat focused shooting is best and I think neither the RMR or laser are necessary or will be of much benefit in such instances.

If you are physically able, my recommendation is to participate in a FoF/Force-on-Force class. I think this will give you a much better understanding of the dynamics. Static range shooting really isn't sufficient.

You can analyze, research and study the issue endlessly, but it is difficult to grasp unless you actually do it. FoF is simply the best simulation we currently have. It's like trying to understand what the best techniques are and how to apply them, how to incorporate footwork, timing etc. in a fist-fight without ever having been in one, or participated in any type of sparring or contact/force drills. To use another analogy, prior to the MMA/UFC, there were various opinions as to what art(s)would generally work best in a NHB cage fight. Opinions were convoluted and varied so drastically because so many arts were based on theory, adapted for different goals/purposes and not proven nor throughly pressure tested in that specific environment. Twenty some odd years later, everyone is pretty much on the same page. Defensive shooting is really no different. To determine what's most effective, we must simulate the conditions of our goal(civilian defensive shooting, not range, target or sport shooing) as best as we can and see what holds up and works well when pressure tested in that specific context.

I think you have the best advice posted yet. I was at an all women's self defense class. The people were learning how if another girl were to pull your hair, don't pull back and leave your head at the attackers control, push forward into their body and jam a hand up the nose.

While standing there, it was apparent that everything learned was not going to be remembered. If you're concerned with self defense and don't do force-on-force practice, not amount of technical jargon in a book or lack of regular practiced behavior is going to save you. You need to become "automatic" at what you practice.

I don't see myself having time to sure on an optic on my own gun. I hear something.... let me just locate that gun, also turn on the optic to approach the situation and respond.

 

[Rett Skutt]

Hi to all,
It has been awhile since I posted, but wanted to thank ALL of you for your support, ideas and great comments. As it has turned out, I have left iron sights on all of my handguns (Ruger SR-45, S&W M&P 9L and Shield). I have practiced with all of them regularly, and find that the Green Crimson trace laser really helps with close targeting. I also like being able to use the iron sights and laser for shooting.

BTW - I finally got my CPL and carry the Shield.

 

[Harper]

I have been using something entirely different fom anything mentioned here. First, I do have a laser on my Shield 9, but not on either my FS 9 or Shiled 45, and have no intention of getting lasers for them. But I DO like to practice moving and point shooting, off-hand shooting and such things at multiple targets, and having 20 acres, partly treed, has given me the opportunity to practice such. The thing is, there ARE other houses around within a "danger zone" for running around just pointing and shooting. So, I do a lot of shooting at paper plates tacked to trees, using a gas blow-back airsoft replica of my full size M&P9. The thing weighs almost as much as my M&P, it's fun, instructive, safe, and cheap!! I carry one spare mag and instead of loading up 30 airsoft BBs in a mag, just load 10, 15 , or 17, and add practicing the reload along with the point and shoot. My skill level at this? Well, I'm working on it. But I'm at better than 60% on 8" paper plates.

At age 71, I don't move real fast, but the adrenaline isn't working during practice, either.

 

[hardluk1]

When I was young and eye sight was very good basic sights in black were good for 25 yards and a fine gold bead worked well on bowling pins out to 100 yards using some sort of rest like creedmoor style . Today my 25 yard groups tend be more like a pattern than a group since I wear trifocals now ! But defensive shooting is NOT the same as target shooting .

Study Flash Sight Picture shooting skills . I can use these skills and keep rapidly fired shots at the A zone of a uspsa target - .24 up to .32 split times from 3 out to out to 10 to 12 yards before slowing down my fire rate as yardage gets farther but with the same shooting skills remain the same out to 25 yards . No hard focus on the sights for defensive shooting drills .

We do have a green laser and a light with a contact switch but its on a AR pistol . Its nice in that you don't need to be behind the weapon to know your on target so with a flash lite on strobe a AR can simply be fired using the green laser on a disoriented target while only glancing around a corner on doorway . I have hunted with a red dot since 1978 on a old DW revolver . Old school 1" tube type 2moa dot . It allows for 4" 100 yards groups still but on hogs at close range the flash sight picture style might be handy if a hogs take notice of you and charge.

We also have a RMO5g on a m&p 4.25 core . That optic uses a 9moa green dot but that only covers 2.25" at 25 yards so you can still shoot accurately yet the dots large enough to pick it up quickly . The bonus for me is I do not use my middle "computer lens " with a dot optic to focus on the dot like I do when glancing at the front sight . My distance vision offers a very clear view of the dot nd down range so hitting targets is fast . There will be a day I carry a pistol with a optic on it but not yet !

Airsoft gas guns are great training tools that can be used in the house and helps greatly with perfecting your trigger movement . I sweep a trigger for most defensive need and close range hunting and do not follow the reset until a targets distance gets out close to or beyond 25 yards . To me there defensive and offensive trigger pull types sweep or follow the rest .

 

[Horn]

Lots of opinions here and some good ones and some too detailed to resonate with the first subject post.
First a laser is different from the "red dot" sight and serves a different purpose.
Also in bright sunlight the laser dot isn't there. Yeah, heard that how much better a green laser is than a red one in sunlight. I've had both and can't tell any advantage__in bright day light.
The red dot (various brands and quality) is a different method of aiming relative the iron sights. There's a reason most of our soldiers in the middle east have "red dot" sights on those rifles___ HEAD SHOTS.
The original poster mentioned the Fast Fire III. Had one. A fine sight but__
the questions come up about batteries.
Now__(And I have a Romeo1 also) my favortie selection for him is the Shield RMS__if he has a single stack pistol, the Shield RMSc. These are smaller than the other "red dot" sights in that they're original design is for pistols, not rifles. Also they're on all the time. No Off and On buttons. No buttons at all. You zero the sight (all require this) and that's it. No setting the dot's intensity. The dot adjusts instantly automatically to the environment. The battery last 2 to 3 years in most situations and 4 years for most of today's EDC guys.
They're $400 and Shield Sights (Made in the UK) seem to do what Apple does with their stuff__ mandate the price! So, the Shield sights cost $400.
Brownells (according to Shield) the U.S. distributor. Yep! $400. Good company to deal with too.
If you use Lone Wolf to mill your slide they sell the Shield RMS ($400) At present they do not offer the RMSc. (for single stack pistols)
I suspect they will offer the RMSc in the near future.
The best way I can explain the difference from using iron sights to the red dot ones is.... with iron sights your lining up the rear with the front sight and then accessing the target. With the red dot sights you find your target and simply wherever you see that red dot in the "window" (doesn't have to be in the center) that's where the bullet hits.
Stay safe
Poli Viejo