Roper/Gagne/ Griffin & Howe connection

[Keith Brown]

Have been thinking about the mystery K frame stocks thread and the possible Griffin & Howe connection to Roper/Gagne, so a few questions. First, does anyone have a copy of the folder mentioned in the G&H advertisement ? And second, does anyone have a set of these stocks from G&H in an original shipping box or with a receipt from them, a long shot I know but it would help validate to possible connection.

 

[S&W ucla]

I had a set of the Woodsman stocks that looked exactly like the ones pictured in ad- except they had the Roper ribbon. Maybe that was the distinguishing feature, no ribbon on the G&H.

 

[kwill1911]

I'm with you, Keith. It is plausible, especially given the grips in the G&H ad, but I'd really like to see some documentary evidence of the connection.

 

[Modified]

Keith, the Bisley Rapid Fire hammer is an interesting thing too, I would love to see this mentioned folder...

Have you checked with Griffin and Howe directly to see if they have it?

 

[skilled]

I also agree there is a possible connection. I would sure like to see concrete evidence of such too!

 

[skilled]

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Do those jig marks in post #6 third photo count as concrete evidence?

 

[Flygas]

Do those jig marks in post #6 third photo count as concrete evidence?

If it's not concrete, it's as good as I've seen!

 

[S&W ucla]

Found photo. Grips have jig marks. Right side has Diamond only, no ribbon.

 

[Keith Brown]

Thank you Skilled, and a very nice set of grip panels also !
The jig marks, although most Roper/Gagne stocks had them so did a few other makers stocks occasionally, and there is nothing uniquely difficult about making that mark. In my opinion it should not be used solely and a means to confirm the maker. A number of years ago the jig mark came up and I voiced the opinion that if that was all it took I'd be right back, went to the garage found appropriate nail and applied file, made "jig" marks in a set underway then took photo and uploaded, about 20 minutes. My point was anyone can make the mark.
And to be clear at this point I'm doubtful that Mathias Gagne made the grips for G&H but certainly willing to be proven wrong or even prove myself wrong. If a documented set of G&H revolver stocks can be found and we can see inside then that just may wrap it up. It's just research, there is no trophy or prize money so I don't see the need to wrap a bow around it ASAP.

Just my thoughts, and thanks to all for the input.

 

[kwill1911]

To further muddy the waters...D.W King Gun Sight company also sold "Roper/Gagne" grips, or some that were at least as similar as the G&H examples. In the 1940s there were at least three people making grips for Roper (according to Gagne's obituary) and there was also an option for machine checkered grips.

 

[Keith Brown]

Kevin, could you post that obit. I knew Albert worked with him at one point and another person made auto grips for him but was not aware of three people working with him, if true he might have farmed work out himself after Roper died, I doubt his work space in his home would allow for 3-4 people working together. I had conversations with Gagne's granddaughter awhile back and she had no recollection of others and she was there with him on a regular basis, fondly remembered being perched on a stool in the attic and watching him dip stocks in a can and then hanging them up.

 

[kwill1911]

I misspoke (was thinking of Roper's obit). Here's the article on Gagne:

 

[kwill1911]

No helpful information about the subject at hand but here is Roper's obit:

 

[Keith Brown]

Thanks Kevin, ran downstairs to look something up and realized I had that in folder Gagne's granddaughter sent me, head slap !
I definitely need to sift through things again.

 

[kwill1911]

It does not reproduce well but here is King's ad for "Handfull" grips. I used to own a pair of these on a Colt National Match pistol that had several other King modifications. They are the same as those sold by G&H.

 

[handejector]

I had conversations with Gagne's granddaughter awhile back and she had no recollection of others and she was there with him on a regular basis, fondly remembered being perched on a stool in the attic and watching him dip stocks in a can and then hanging them up.

So, what did they ever do with Gagne's tools? Maybe time to revisit that topic?

 

[kwill1911]

I used to have an article published in "The U.S. Hand-Gunner" (official organ of the United States Revolver Association) in May, 1952 about Gagne. I can't find it. Does anyone else have a copy?

 

[gdogs]

It does not reproduce well but here is King's ad for "Handfull" grips. I used to own a pair of these on a Colt National Match pistol that had several other King modifications. They are the same as those sold by G&H.

Not to murky the waters too much, but I don't believe that the King grips were made by Gagne. Here is a set I have on a Clark Gold Cup. There is no thumbrest - just a large palm swell, and no markings or even jig marks underneath.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoIEMWGH3Jk&feature=emb_logo[/ame]

That said, I am of the opinion that the G&H grips were made by Gagne, at least some of them anyways. The only other reasonable assumption is that they copied his designs 100%.

 

[kwill1911]

Neat gun...and grips. Bear in mind that Roper had another man that made grips for automatic pistols. Also, King sold grips from several makers, including Sanderson, Murad, et al.