RP .45ACP BRASS - SHALLOW PRIMER POCKETS?

[GCF]

Gents -
Some time back, I noticed that the Fed LPP in use, would not seat below flush - w/ RP .45ACP brass. Confirmed clean pockets, & fully seated, but no change.

Switched to WW .45ACP brass, & no further problems noted. I've got a bunch of the RP brass, & would like to put it to use. I'm thinking different primers might be the ticket.

Hard to get a consistent primer pocket depth measurement, w/ my dial caliper. Best I can tell, the RP pockets are 0.121", & the WW pockets are about 0.001" deeper, at 0.122". Those are fairly rough numbers.

The Federal LPP are very consistent at 0.121" OAL. WW LPP measured 0.118" - 0.119" OAL. I have no RP, or CCI primers to measure.

Wondering if anyone else has run into this problem, & if so, what was the solution? Thanks in advance, for any input.

 

[Ed Fowler]

How many times have they been reloaded?

I find the base of 9mm and 45 AR expand and the primer pockets get shallower each time you shoot them, after 40 reloading s my primer pockets were .009 shallower. 45 AR had expanded to the point the rims would not fit in my shell holder.

 

[505Gibbs]

There are tools[carbide] that will cut the pocket to a uniform depth - an option.

 

[AveragEd]

Yep - I cut the primer pocket of every piece of new brass I buy. I use an RCBS Case Prep Station and the it takes it maybe three seconds to uniform a primer pocket. As a possible side benefit, they get a nice taper toward the flash hole that might promote better flame travel.

Ed

 

[gwpercle]

The Lyman Primer Pocket Uniformer , $16.00 at Midway , will take care of that problem. I have one and it works .
Gary

 

[moxie]

There's nothing cast in stone about primers seating below flush. What matters is that they are seated fully to the bottom of the pocket. If they are, and they appear flush instead of below flush...they are OK! If they are much above flush they can be a problem.

The "below flush" thing is just an indicator that for most primer and brass combinations, most of the time, primers seated below flush are OK, because it is "likely" they are fully seated to the bottom of the pocket.

 

[Alk8944]

As moxie said, primers don't have to seat below flush! If they will seat flush that is really how it should be. Rarely will you find factory ammunition that has primers below flush.

If you are using a priming tool that is adjustable for depth it may be improperly adjusted. Then if you are using a hand priming tool that has some miles on it, the tool may be worn to the point that it is incapable of seating a primer flush! This last is common with the Lee hand priming tools.

 

[DWalt]

Factory specs are usually that the primer seats flush to 0.006" (max) below the cartridge case's rear face. The primer just cannot stand proud of the rear surface, as that can cause malfunctions.

 

[GCF]

Factory specs are usually that the primer seats flush to 0.006" (max) below the cartridge case's rear face. The primer just cannot stand proud of the rear surface, as that can cause malfunctions.

I'd settle for flush, but primers were standing proud - actually snagging on the shell plate - during rotation.

Again, this was a couple of years ago, & w/ the RP brass only. Switched over to the WW brass, & no further issues encountered. Fed, or WW primers.

W/ .45ACP, I sort by headstamp, but don't attempt to track # of firings. That said, most of this brass is estimated to be 2x - 5x, & a long way from worn out. I do weed out obviously worn case head, & loose / leaky primer pocket individuals.

I am aware of the primer pocket uniformer option. Actually have a tool ordered from Sinclair a while back - when shooting moonclipped M625's. After using the tool (carefully), I had a large percentage of the pockets leak - so quit using it.

At any rate, considering a 10 - 20% "in the weeds" loss rate (bad policy to poke around in S. TX weed patches / brush piles), I figure sorting for headstamp, & OAL, is time enough spent on my 1911 brass.

Figure I'll try some WW primers, as they seem to be a bit shorter then the Fed LP.

Probably should do an OAL comparison on CCI, & RP LPP too - if I can find some.

Thanks to all - for the input!

 

[Ed Fowler]

I buy new brass, all same lot. I store it in bulk and take it out of bulk to use and place it in 100 round plastic boxes. I load all of it at once and each time it is reloaded I mark the box with a sticker telling me how many times it has been reloaded. Started out doing it just for curiosity sake, then find it educational.

 

[GCF]

I buy new brass, all same lot. I store it in bulk and take it out of bulk to use and place it in 100 round plastic boxes. I load all of it at once and each time it is reloaded I mark the box with a sticker telling me how many times it has been reloaded. Started out doing it just for curiosity sake, then find it educational.

There is a lot to be said for that practice. I do the same w/ rifle, & also revolver brass. I've been loading .45ACP for 1911's the longest, but have never bought a single piece of brass - in that caliber.

Maybe it's time to start. Been contemplating a #500 (or #1000) lot purchase from Starline...

Think my groups might tighten up??

 

[gwpercle]

The Lyman tool I have only cuts the pockets deeper , it does not enlarge the diameter and works just fine for 45 acp .

 

[Ed Fowler]

There is a lot to be said for that practice. I do the same w/ rifle, & also revolver brass. I've been loading .45ACP for 1911's the longest, but have never bought a single piece of brass - in that caliber.

Maybe it's time to start. Been contemplating a #500 (or #1000) lot purchase from Starline...

Think my groups might tighten up??

Mine sure did! Naturally it all depends on the brass you start off with. When I bought my last 1,000 rounds of 9 mm Starline Brass, I started weighing random cartridges and found them very consistent. Same with case length & primer pockets.

I found that the first loading is not as consistently accurate as once fired brass.

What the heck, try it and see for yourself.

 

[moxie]

I don't buy brass, except for one lot dedicated to the 625.

Otherwise it's all range brass scarfed up out of those Texas weeds. I never sort and must have over 50 different headstamps in .45acp and some have been reloaded countless times in the last 28 years. I have never had a leaky primer pocket. I use whatever primer is available for the best price, including Rem., Win., CCI, Fed. Can't tell the difference between the cases in any meaningful way. All go bang in many different guns.

I just wash then clean them in the vibrator and cull out the smashed or excessively dinged or split cases (or AMERCs). Otherwise good to go. IMO, no reason to spend any more time or money on them than that.

 

[MichiganScott]

Although I generally uniform primer pockets in rifle brass, I can't imagine spending the time necessary to do 500 pistol cases.

To the OP, try different brands of primers. They vary in height.

 

[Magload]

Having the same problem with Federal 223 brass and WSR primers. They are sticking out so far that the turret won't turn. Ran both tools in the pockets of 10 and they seat fine. The pick of primers around here is slim it is either Winchester or Winchester. Next time I put in a powder order I will try something different.

 

[DWalt]

For those who may be interested in such minutiae, the official U. S. Army toleranced dimensions for the primer and primer pocket for the 5.56mm military case are:

Primer height (including protrusion of the anvil) = 0.127"-0.010"
Primer diameter = 0.1758"-0.0012"

Primer pocket depth = 0.118"+0.004"
Primer pocket diameter = 0.1738"+0.0007"

Commercial small rifle primers and .223 cases should be very close to these dimensions.

 

[joeintexas]

The only brass I have had a problem seating is S&B, it always takes a little grinding to open up a bit, even with S&B primers. Not sure why but they are.

 

[DWalt]

The only brass I have had a problem seating is S&B, it always takes a little grinding to open up a bit, even with S&B primers. Not sure why but they are.

I do have a quantity of S&B .38 Special brass. It takes a little finagling with my Lee priming tool to get primers seated in it, but I can usually do it. It takes a little patience and experience in getting a feel for when the primer starts to go into the primer pocket.

 

[GCF]

Although I generally uniform primer pockets in rifle brass, I can't imagine spending the time necessary to do 500 pistol cases.

To the OP, try different brands of primers. They vary in height.

For the record, WW LPP's fixed the problem I was having w/ the RP brass. Fully seated, they are all uniformly just below flush.

Fed LPP's are about 0.002" - 0.003" taller. Got to love 'em - aside from that.

Oh yeah, my thoughts exactly - regarding too much time spent on pistol brass. I'll do what I can to maintain uniformity, but ya' gotta' draw the line somewhere...