Russian Ammo BANNED

[Krogen]

In general, I have little use for steel-cased ammo. BUT, many other people do. This will just increase market pressure on brass-cased ammo and handloading components. When products are already in short supply, banning a viable source only makes the situation worse.

 

[mikerjf]

Was shooting some kind of foreign steel-case in a friends Mini-30 last week... every 5th or 6th round was a dud.

 

[scoobysnacker]

This ban won't hurt me personally. Still, I would like to have the option to buy this stuff.

Unless you make your own reloading components, this will effect you at some level.

Russian steel-cased is the cheapest thing on the market, in any caliber it's made in. Other countries make it too, but not in the bulk the Russians do.

"But I only shoot my reloads"... like I said, if you MAKE your own components, you're fine. But if you rely on primers, you are tied to market prices. Primers are very scarce, and have jumped in price. You run out of primers, you run out of ammo.

"But I only shoot brass new manufactured ammo"... consider this: the lowest priced ammo on the market was steel-cased, and that was selling to others besides you. Those other people have now been cut off, and they can either quit shooting, or start buying brass-cased ammo. The same stuff you look for, that's now in higher demand.

Also, steel-cased IS the cheapest option. Brass is better, nobody denies that. But for 'cheap' brass to sell, it still needed to stay within a certain distance of the lowest priced stuff. Winchester White Box hasn't been elite stuff, I would never pay 2x the price of Tula for it. So they kept it affordable.
That's no longer a concern to Winchester; Tula isn't available to take market share if they raise the prices. They're now the lowest priced option.

 

[rockquarry]

I handload everything so have had virtually no experience with any Russian products except for some .22 ammo years ago. Some of that was trash, some of it good.

I had no idea the Russian ammo and other products were so popular with US shooters. Is is strictly price that accounts for the popularity?

 

[Muss Muggins]

Here is the actual press release from the State Department. It details the reasons behind the ban, but it's not as detailed as the fact sheet posted earlier . . .

U.S. Imposes Additional Costs on Russia for Aleksey Navalny Poisoning - United States Department of State

 

[scoobysnacker]

Was shooting some kind of foreign steel-case in a friends Mini-30 last week... every 5th or 6th round was a dud.

Mini 30... 7.62x39, right?

Go explore some of the "ARs in 7.62x39" threads on other guns forums. The ammo isn't a dud, it has harder berdan primers.

I have SKS's, and I recently put together an inexpensive AR in that caliber.
I bought the correct, recommended magazines (C Product Duramags), zero issues from those. The infamous "magazine issue" is simply people trying to use bigger ammo in standard mags, it would bind up. With the Duramags, I've had smooth feeds.

Re the primers- initially, I would have a failure to fire, but then that rd would shoot in my SKS.
The prescribed fix was to A) get an "enhanced firing pin", with the tip slightly more protuding when fired; and B) get stronger hammer springs if A) didn't fix it.

I bought an $11 firing pin, problem solved. Never needed to address the springs. My cheapo Bear Creek Armory upper with the enhanced pin is totally reliable now with Tula, Barnaul, Wolf, etc. And since I have had the SKS a long time, I had some ammo that was fairly old... no issue at all. My understanding is, these hard primers are also the most reliable long-term primers.

 

[glenwolde]

My indoor range doesn't allow steel or aluminum. Only because it contaminates the brass for recycling. They just sell their brass for scrap but it's something.

The flip side is they not only don't care how much you pick up, the RSO's will sweep it to the wall for you keeping it as separated by caliber as best they can. When I shoot 9mm I'll shoot 100 and come home with 400, plus a half a box of .45, another half a box of .380, plus a few stray cases of other calibers like .40 or .32 ACP. It's usually pretty busy but I've never seen another shooter picking up brass. Which I find odd. No problem, if it's something I shoot I'll take it.

But I'll agree that any loss of supply is not a good thing.

 

[scoobysnacker]

I handload everything so have had virtually no experience with any Russian products except for some .22 ammo years ago. Some of that was trash, some of it good.

I had no idea the Russian ammo and other products were so popular with US shooters. Is is strictly price that accounts for the popularity?

Price and availability, yes; for the most part.

If your AR, for example, can shoot steel 223 without issue, and it's primarily a fun gun for plinking, it's financially smarter to shoot steel.

Lucky Gunner did a serious torture test, 10,000 rds over 2 days, trying several brands of steel, and 1 gun shot Federal brass. 1 gun dedicated to each brand.
Some reports of "problems"; the Tula gun had problems after around 5k or so, but they finished it off with another gun (not included in the tests).
Others listed some failures, but I think the number was around 16 or so (out of 10K). So, 1-2 bad rds out of a case.
They reported that the barrels were shot out on the steel-cased at the end, while the Federal gun was still fine. But they also pointed out- the difference in cost of ammo meant they had saved enough to buy more barrels and still come out ahead. And that was pre-panic prices, which were better.

In today's market, I could find 223 steel-cased ammo for around $350 a case, new brass (and it's not Federal, it's Igman or PPU) for around $500. That's $150 a case. I built my most recent cheap AR for about $400. So, 3 cases of ammo- shooting steel, I save enough to buy not just a new barrel, I could build another gun.

Not to overload this post, but there are other reasons to buy steel, too. Steel 308 (7.62 NATO), if you have an AR or a FAL it's not a big issue, one way or the other. Steel is cheaper but dirtier, and not as precise (but people were still hitting targets, so it's not awful).
But if you have a roller-delayed rifle (HK, PTR, Cetme etc), those beat the living **** out of the cases. I have a Cetme-based C308 (I know, cheap Century ****, yada yada)... sources confirm Century brought in PTR for the C308, and mine has been solid. 100% function with steel-cased. Occasional fail to eject with brass- because it has a fluted chamber, and the Armscor brass I had would occasionally expand and get stuck in the flutes. I've looked at the cases, thats what happened.

For something like 9x18 Makarov, I could occasionally find Geco or PPU brass, but those were designed around steel and the cheaper Wolf or Tula shot well.

 

[glenwolde]

Price and availability, yes; for the most part.

If your AR, for example, can shoot steel 223 without issue, and it's primarily a fun gun for plinking, it's financially smarter to shoot steel.

Lucky Gunner did a serious torture test, 10,000 rds over 2 days, trying several brands of steel, and 1 gun shot Federal brass. 1 gun dedicated to each brand.
Some reports of "problems"; the Tula gun had problems after around 5k or so, but they finished it off with another gun (not included in the tests).
Others listed some failures, but I think the number was around 16 or so (out of 10K). So, 1-2 bad rds out of a case.
They reported that the barrels were shot out on the steel-cased at the end, while the Federal gun was still fine. But they also pointed out- the difference in cost of ammo meant they had saved enough to buy more barrels and still come out ahead. And that was pre-panic prices, which were better.

In today's market, I could find 223 steel-cased ammo for around $350 a case, new brass (and it's not Federal, it's Igman or PPU) for around $500. That's $150 a case. I built my most recent cheap AR for about $400. So, 3 cases of ammo- shooting steel, I save enough to buy not just a new barrel, I could build another gun.

Not to overload this post, but there are other reasons to buy steel, too. Steel 308 (7.62 NATO), if you have an AR or a FAL it's not a big issue, one way or the other. Steel is cheaper but dirtier, and not as precise (but people were still hitting targets, so it's not awful).
But if you have a roller-delayed rifle (HK, PTR, Cetme etc), those beat the living **** out of the cases. I have a Cetme-based C308 (I know, cheap Century ****, yada yada)... sources confirm Century brought in PTR for the C308, and mine has been solid. 100% function with steel-cased. Occasional fail to eject with brass- because it has a fluted chamber, and the Armscor brass I had would occasionally expand and get stuck in the flutes. I've looked at the cases, thats what happened.

For something like 9x18 Makarov, I could occasionally find Geco or PPU brass, but those were designed around steel and the cheaper Wolf or Tula shot well.

The 9x18 is where a ban would hurt the most I think. One rarely sees brass 9x18 and it's a whole lot more expensive. If you reload it's pretty easy to make brass 9x18 cases from 9x19.

I make mine. My PA-63 had a horrible trigger pull. A spring kit fixed that nicely but ignition is unreliable with steel case ammo. With American primers in converted 9mm Lugar brass it's 100%.

 

[Dave Lively]

It don’t bother me at all, now let’s stop all Chinese imports too.

Importing guns and ammo from China was banned in 1993.

I used to shoot a lot of Norinco 5.56 and 9mm in the late 80s and early 90s. Unlike most of the stuff from Russia it was all brass case. It was competitively priced and my only complaint with it was the 5.56 ammo was either a little hot or used too slow of a powder. More muzzle blast than other ammo in that caliber, It had crimped in primers so there was an extra step if you wanted to reload it but you could reload it if you wanted to.

I never had much interest in them at the time but now I wish I had bought at least one of those $89 SKS rifles from China when I had the chance.

 

[Drm50]

Importing guns and ammo from China was banned in 1993.

I used to shoot a lot of Norinco 5.56 and 9mm in the late 80s and early 90s. Unlike most of the stuff from Russia it was all brass case. It was competitively priced and my only complaint with it was the 5.56 ammo was either a little hot or used too slow of a powder. More muzzle blast than other ammo in that caliber, It had crimped in primers so there was an extra step if you wanted to reload it but you could reload it if you wanted to.

I never had much interest in them at the time but now I wish I had bought at least one of those $89 SKS rifles from China when I had the chance.

I wasn’t just referring to ammo and firearms.

 

[scoobysnacker]

The 9x18 is where a ban would hurt the most I think. One rarely sees brass 9x18 and it's a whole lot more expensive. If you reload it's pretty easy to make brass 9x18 cases from 9x19.

I make mine. My PA-63 had a horrible trigger pull. A spring kit fixed that nicely but ignition is unreliable with steel case ammo. With American primers in converted 9mm Lugar brass it's 100%.

Over the years, I've bought Fiocchi, Geco, and most recently PPU brass Mak. I've also had the Hornady stuff.

Probably a couple bucks more per box, as I wouldn't go for much more (the Hornady was an early buy, before I knew better).

It also goes back to another bugaboo issue we may face- almost all of my Mak ammo has been online. Academy occasionally had Monarch (Russian steel) at decent prices.

 

[rockquarry]

Importing guns and ammo from China was banned in 1993.

I used to shoot a lot of Norinco 5.56 and 9mm in the late 80s and early 90s. Unlike most of the stuff from Russia it was all brass case. It was competitively priced and my only complaint with it was the 5.56 ammo was either a little hot or used too slow of a powder. More muzzle blast than other ammo in that caliber, It had crimped in primers so there was an extra step if you wanted to reload it but you could reload it if you wanted to.

I never had much interest in them at the time but now I wish I had bought at least one of those $89 SKS rifles from China when I had the chance.

You didn't miss out on much by not getting an SKS. I bought two when they were cheap along with a tin of 550 rounds of ammo; don't know where that was manufactured but cast bullet loads were more accurate. The SKS is probably fine for it's designed purpose, but an incredibly crude gun for anything else. If you can afford a gun, you can afford something better than an SKS.

 

[smithman 10]

Wish I still had mine

I bought a Yugo SKS for about $75 many years ago. Sold it later for 2 or 3 times my cost.

It was fun to shoot.

 

[444 Magnum]

I don't shoot the Russian ammo anymore because I've found most of it the be dirty- leaving lots of residue in my firearm. Doesn't seem to burn completely.
Only problem to me with this ban, is it will give American producers another reason to claim a "shortage" and keep prices high.

 

[LVSteve]

I will miss the steel cased 308 ammo. It's good stuff for shooting in Indian 7.62 NATO rifles with their sometimes questionable chamber dimensions and headspace.

 

[luvsmiths]

Who says the ammo shortage is not Gov't. produced?

Yes. All ammo manufacturers, except the Russians, are secretly anti second amendment, and willing to go out of business to help strip us of our rights.
They set up these companies years ago, not to actually make money, but to help circumvent our second amendment rights.

 

[luvsmiths]

I handload everything so have had virtually no experience with any Russian products except for some .22 ammo years ago. Some of that was trash, some of it good.

I had no idea the Russian ammo and other products were so popular with US shooters. Is is strictly price that accounts for the popularity?

Wolf 22 match ammo. GTREAT Stuff.

Any Wolf Gold ammo- great stuff.

Not all Russian ammo is steel, guys.

 

[vonn]

Just did a quick online check and none available. Price will rise!

 

[AJ]

Too bad that the government has done that. I do not use any Russian ammo for it does not affect me. Feel sorry for those that do. Just waiting for them to do something to U.S. made ammo.........