S&W 1905 year of manufacture??

Show us a well lit sharp picture of the other side, or better yet, several. That might allow a better assessment of original (or not) finish. No one is arguing that the logo stamp isn't there, the issue is whether or not it is "crisp" enough to be original. I don't see enough to say that it isn't, the other side might provide the "rest of the story."

Jeff
SWCA #1457
 
McHenry & Roper were responsible for the naming convention for most models of S&W. Their book was printed in 1958. Roper was the head of the S&W Service Department and McHenry was a Special Agent for the Bureau of Investigation and a S&W collector. They developed the terminology that was used by Roy Jinks in 1966 to write his book. Both used the Model 1905 right up to WWII. On the other hand, the company dropped the year, perhaps to not "age" the gun in the eyes of the customer. Who would want to buy a Model 1905 in the Roaring 20s.
My thought was the same. Sort of like who would have wanted to buy a new 1970 car in 1980 at full price? Customers usually want the latest and greatest. But that was not the last time S&W used a year as part of a model name. For example S&W also made Model 1950 and 1955 .45 Target Revolvers. In the late 50s, S&W went to using numerical model designations - Model 10, 14, 15, 17, etc. that did not use years.
 
Last edited:
as long as this page lets me, I will post numerous pictures...coming right up...
 
Just my guess from looking at the pics I would bet on a quality reblue perhaps from S&W.
I'm the farthest of anyone here as an authority on finish or refinish, but I would be on the side of those who say "not original finish"...On guns of this era, would the forward chamfered tip of the ejector rod have been blued, or left in the white?...And are there any rework marks or dates, particularly under the left stock panel?...:)...Ben
 
I see no definite evidence of a refinish. That said...

If you are willing, what we need are images taken in medium intensity, neutral lighting (no bright spots/reflections), with the gun wiped very clean with a soft towel, and in sharp focus. Closeups of the sideplate seam on the right and the end of the pin under the thumbpiece (cylinder latch) would be very helpful. The beige neutral background is fine.

Also, please include an image of the left lower grip frame with the stock panel removed and any stamped letters/numbers there in focus.

You can attach up to five images per post.
 
I see no definite evidence of a refinish. That said...

If you are willing, what we need are images taken in medium intensity, neutral lighting (no bright spots/reflections), with the gun wiped very clean with a soft towel, and in sharp focus. Closeups of the sideplate seam on the right and the end of the pin under the thumbpiece (cylinder latch) would be very helpful. The beige neutral background is fine.

Also, please include an image of the left lower grip frame with the stock panel removed and any stamped letters/numbers there in focus.

You can attach up to five images per post.


I have tried to post more than one pic in one post..for some reason or other, it rejects it. and its nothing I am doing that is incorrect.
 
I see no definite evidence of a refinish. That said...

If you are willing, what we need are images taken in medium intensity, neutral lighting (no bright spots/reflections), with the gun wiped very clean with a soft towel, and in sharp focus. Closeups of the sideplate seam on the right and the end of the pin under the thumbpiece (cylinder latch) would be very helpful. The beige neutral background is fine.

Also, please include an image of the left lower grip frame with the stock panel removed and any stamped letters/numbers there in focus.

You can attach up to five images per post.

Thank you for your help, but its been established that the gun was made in the 1930's..I did pay a premium price for it due to its condition, and I am very happy with it. even though I am no professional, I don't think that its reblued, based on what the seller told me, and he is a reputable dealer..and at this point, if it was, its an extremely pro job, and as I previously stated, I was shooing for a 1905 made in that time frame....I will buy a set of vintage grips with the silver medallions and that will be fine for me.
 
Last edited:
McHenry & Roper were responsible for the naming convention for most models of S&W. Their book was printed in 1958.
Just FYI, McHenty & Roper was first published in 1945 by Standard Publications. Stackpole reprinted it in 1958.


They developed the terminology that was used by Roy Jinks in 1966 to write his book.
Let's not leave out Bob Neal. ;) The 1st Edition was published in 1966, the revised and enlarged edition was published in 1975. If one wishes to own a copy of Neal & Jinks, one should definitely buy the Revised Edition of 1975 unless one is a bibliophile, another affliction I suffer from. It has much more data. Being an incurable bibliophile, I have both. :D


On the other hand, the company dropped the year, perhaps to not "age" the gun in the eyes of the customer.
I have always thought that.
It is a curious fact that "old" is OK in rifles and non-automatic shotguns, but not OK in handguns being sold to users. Think about it- how popular do the Mauser 98 and 03 Springfield remain for custom rifles that are actually used, and SxS and O/U shotguns remain the pinnacle for feather shooters, while handgun toters must have the latest and greatest? I suppose it stems from the philosophy that the guy in the gunfight with the newest design will win and live.
That ol' gun'll git ya kilt! :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
S&W abandoned the Model of 1905 (and Model of 1902) terminology in 1915. Thereafter, the same revolver was called the .38 or .32-20 Military and Police Revolver (square or round butt) in all company catalogs and advertising. Insofar as S&W was concerned, the "Model of 1905" effectively ceased to exist. However, there remain many collectors who continue to use the Model of 1905 terminology for all similar revolvers made up to WWII. It is not really incorrect as the revolver itself remained much the same as it was in 1905 (but for several engineering design modifications) for the whole time. But the fact remains that "Model of 1905" is not what S&W called it. I cannot explain exactly why the historical letters continue to call those post-1915 revolvers as Models of 1905 because I do not know. Perhaps somebody reading this is aware of and can explain the reason. Maybe it's just tradition. Similarly, the fourth and earlier "changes" were never part of S&W's factory nomenclature system. They are purely collector terms. Yet they appear in historical letters and are also in various reference sources just as though they had been used by S&W.
I'll take a shot. :D
I collect M&Ps. I have a bunch. I have never really counted them, so I don't currently know how many. A few duplicates were sold occasionally so I could afford to buy others I didn't have or were sold when I just needed money.
I am a student of the M&P.
I have always desired to understand the mechanical evolution of the M&P. I have disassembled and studied every mechanical and model variant of the M&P. A very interesting point in the evolution of the M&P is the fact that unlike many design changes made by manufacturers to make a product quicker and cheaper to manufacture, many changes to the S&W action were incorporated to make the gun better, not quicker or cheaper. I am certain some changes made them more expensive to build. That is a laudable philosophy. ;)
But back to your question-
Being a student and collector of the M&P, I wish to own and understand all mechanical variants of the M&P. So, when I'm playing with my guns, it truly does matter to me whether I am holding a 1902-1st Change, or a 1905-1st Change, or a 1905-3rd change. I can tell at a glance or even by feeling in the dark whether I am holding a round butt or a square butt, so the "1902 or 1905" controversy is pointless to me. WHAT is the gun mechanically?
I own at least one of all mechanical variants, so the whole point for me is exactly which variant I am looking at. ;)
It is even more fun when you've examined enough of them to note that there are variants with mixed features of the "changes", like an 05-2nd that still has the keyway in the frame, but lacks the key on the rebound slide. Or an 05-3rd that still has circular ends on the extractor star......
 
I own just 2 1905 models. the first one was made in 1915, with another near terrific condition. and this one that this post is about. my aim was to get one made in the 1930's, hence my buying the first one, and thinking it was made then....my mistake....But I will keep them both....
 
FWIW, here are two 1905s in original factory condition. The round butt from early 1920s and square butt from early 1930s. Serials 373XXX and 512XXX respectively. I also saved this info from another member's post:

Post 1920 M&Ps are easy to bracket within a few years. The stocks on 1920 to 1930 M&Ps had convex walnut diamond service stocks. The order to add the MADE IN USA was issued in May 1922. It appears on the right side of the frame below the cylinder. The mushroom shaped ejector rod knob was ordered replaced with a barrel shaped knob on 1/22/27, so ended in 1927/1928.
 

Attachments

  • 20230122_102500.jpg
    20230122_102500.jpg
    163.6 KB · Views: 15
  • 20230122_102609.jpg
    20230122_102609.jpg
    167.3 KB · Views: 15
Back
Top