S&W 2nd Model hand Ejector in .455 Webley - can I shoot .45ACP through it ??

[Mike.45]

Dear all,

First post so please go easy on me !!

I am about to acquire a 1918 .455 2nd Model Hand Ejector that was sent to the British in WW1 and I have read that many were converted to shoot .45ACP by use of moonclips like the 1917 and modern 625s etc and was wondering what I needed to do to it to be able to shoot it like that.

Is it as simple as putting rounds into a moonclip and shooting or is there more to it than that ??

Thanks

Mike

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

Your revolver would have to be modified to shoot .45 ACPs or .45 Auto Rim cartridges through it, otherwise the the headspace would not be wide enough for the thickness of the moonclip/rim.

If you post pictures of your revolver, taken from the side, showing the cap between the cylinder and the recoil shield, we may be able to tell.

 

[deadin]

Look on the back of the cylinder. If the serial number is still there, it hasn't been converted. If no serial, it probably has been shaved to accomodate half moon clips or 45Auto Rim.

 

[glowe]

If your .455 is not converted, be happy. Many of these fine Smith's were converted and, in my opinion, they have lost value.

I have an unaltered .455 and use Fiocchi ammo sold online through Midway USA. You can also reload them by obtaining a set of .455 dies. Shoots great!

 

[Texas Star]

Some were also converted to .45 Colt. Be sure what you have before trying to shoot it.

I suggest leaving it in .455, if not altered. It has more value and more authentic history. It appeals to those who collect British arms as well as S&W collectors.

These guns are nearly 100 years old, and the cylinders were not heat-treated. If it has been converted, go easy on ammo. Basic .45ACP probably exceeds .455 Proof pressures!

 

[Mike.45]

Thanks for the replies guys, I was a bit concerned about whether .45ACP may be too hot for it.

 

[beagleye]

45 ammo

If it has been converted it has probably already seen an acre of cheap 45 acp ammo and is probably fine for the standard stuff, but I would never fire any of the hot +p stuff in mine.

Sometimes the conversion was done by shaving the thickness of the recoil shield, which left the serial number on the cylinder.

But, there is nothing complicated about using the clips. Mine is very accurate but not with store bought ammo, it takes a soft lead bullet to expand to the oversized throats.

Have fun, they are awesome old guns.

 

[MajorD]

455 ammo (like many brit calibers) had very thin rims and were shorter than 45acp. no way an acp is going to fit in an unmodified gun. don't modify it if it is in original chambering. proper ammo and dies in 455 are available.

 

[Jack Flash]

There were two versions of the smokeless .455 Webley, the Mark I and Mark II. The Mk I has a case length of about .88" and the Mk II case length is about .77" (ever notice how the Brits seemed to love double numbers? Or double numbers separated by a zero as in .303? ). The Mark I had started life as a black powder round. When the switch to less bulky smokeless powder occured, the Brits reasoned they could get the same performance from a shorter case, hence the advent of the Mark II. But they still had some Mark I smokeless around as well.

Anyways, the .455 Webley Mk I's case is just about exactly as long as a .45 ACP. I don't have experience with the old WWI S&Ws in .455, but my WWI New Service readily chambers the longer Mk I. This is only supposition, but I would assume that the Brits would have wanted them chambered to accommodate the longer cartridge, since then the shorter cartridge could be used as well. In a pinch, whatever version was available could be used.

I was wondering how you dated it to 1918. I think the British contract was cancelled in 1917, when the US entered the war so woefully short of pistols that the Army contracted with S&W as well as Colt to provide the Model of 1917 to supplement the standard-issue Model of 1911. No resources left over to make revolvers for the Brits. I know some .455s were put togther and sold after the war. If you post your serial number (x out the last few digits if you like), someone here can probably give a pretty good estimate of when it left the S&W factory.

Put me in the camp that says don't convert it. If it already has been converted, put me in the camp that says shoot reduced loads if you shoot it at all.

Might as well post this picture. Note that ".455 Colt" was Colt's name for .455 Webley Mark I. Obviously, Dominion used that name as well. By the way, it can be clearly seen that Fiocchi uses/used small pistol primers:

 

[handejector]

I think the British contract was cancelled in 1917, when the US entered the war so woefully short of pistols that the Army contracted with S&W as well as Colt to provide the Model of 1917 to supplement the standard-issue Model of 1911. No resources left over to make revolvers for the Brits. I know some .455s were put togther and sold after the war.

Nope.
The contract was completed in late 1916.
In a parts cleanup, the last of the 455's were assembled and sold before 1917 production began, as far as I know. I don't think any significant numbers were built after the War.

And yes, all the S&W's had the Mark I chamber. A 45 ACP goes WAY in.

 

[glowe]

The cylinder length on my 455 is 1.59", and the Mark II ammo is far shorter than the cylinder at 1.4".

With Mark II ammo, this is one of the smoothest shooting Smith wheelguns I own. Not the fastest big caliber handgun, but not near as punishing as 45LC or 45ACP.

I just wish I had more of these revolvers in their original caliber. . .

. . . BUT MY GRANDFATHER ALWAYS SAID - IF WISHES WERE HORSES, THEN BEGGERS WOULD RIDE