S&W 455 Mark II US,CA,Or Britt?
- Thread starter AC Man
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I didn't know that any from 1915 stayed in the US so I guess that's the one I would want. From those I've seen for sale I don't think there is much if any price difference if condition is the same and there is no additional provenance. Many of those that originally went to the UK also went to other parts of the empire and served in two wars and more. I guess I'd value those with country and/or unit stamps more than those without and those linked to a specific individual even higher, but that's just me. We'd love to see pictures if you can get them.
You might find this .455 MKII research thread helpful:
.455 British Svc Revolver Research Thread
Jeff
SWCA #1457
You might find this .455 MKII research thread helpful:
.455 British Svc Revolver Research Thread
Jeff
SWCA #1457
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Thank you for the info I started out interested in N frame revolvers from my birth year 1956 and seem to be working my way backwards. I have read and seen that Americans beat the hell and shot the hell out of theirs and other countries that were issued the same guns and 16 rounds treated them like gold and never shot them unless necessary which is why you see mint from other countries.
I don't want to buy a *** US version if I can buy a Canadian version same year in mint condition? Thus my question is the same gun worth more in the same condition from one country or another. I would like the american version version if I could find one.
I don't want to buy a *** US version if I can buy a Canadian version same year in mint condition? Thus my question is the same gun worth more in the same condition from one country or another. I would like the american version version if I could find one.
Read through that research thread, it will take you awhile. If you find any mint .455 MkIIs from 1915 please post them here. Those guns saw more locations and likely more action than most and many show it. I have one with Australian stamps that went to the UK first and probably saw duty in both world wars. If you can find one in original mint condition great, it will probably be expensive. And as a personal preference, for a gun made for the military, I think I'd rather have one that has "been there and done that" than one that has lived in a box since 1915. Good luck though, if you find a mint one we'd love to see it here.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
Jeff
SWCA #1457
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Over run .455s were sold in the US. My guess is that a WWI British unit stamped revolver in mint condition would be the most valuable.
Were there overruns from the 1915 manufacturing? I don't know, I thought all of those went to fill contracts for the Brits and the overruns came from later production at the end of WWI. . . . but I could well be wrong.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
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There's only one British Service Revolver Military Contract for .455 MKII (meaning the cartridge they were chambered for).
There are four variations of the revolver and all built to contract specs as ordered by the British. Some of each variation were sold commercially to English, Canadian or US wholesalers. None were used by the US military.
Refer to the thread link supplied by 22hipower above to learn the variations.
So first thing we need to know to answer your question is which variations are the guns you refer to as US, CA or British?
The variation will affect the value more than anything else assuming of course that they're in like condition.
The first, second and 4th variations are "Triple Locks" and will always have higher value.
There are four variations of the revolver and all built to contract specs as ordered by the British. Some of each variation were sold commercially to English, Canadian or US wholesalers. None were used by the US military.
Refer to the thread link supplied by 22hipower above to learn the variations.
So first thing we need to know to answer your question is which variations are the guns you refer to as US, CA or British?
The variation will affect the value more than anything else assuming of course that they're in like condition.
The first, second and 4th variations are "Triple Locks" and will always have higher value.
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Hondo44 should be able to answer that. Hopefully he will be along soon.
There really isn't an American version. They're all British Svc Revolvers. Some were just sold into the US commercial market. A very few were issued to state National Guard units. But the majority of those sold in the US was to the public and are in better condition because they weren't used in the war.
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Were any of the U.S. sold versions in a caliber other than .455?
This .455 2nd Model shipped to Shapleigh Hardware in December 1917 along with ~1000 other guns (IIRC). AFAIK, it never left the USA and has rarely been fired, if at all. The holster was with the gun when I got it and apparently dates to the time frame of shipping.
This .455 2nd Model shipped to Shapleigh Hardware in December 1917 along with ~1000 other guns (IIRC). AFAIK, it never left the USA and has rarely been fired, if at all. The holster was with the gun when I got it and apparently dates to the time frame of shipping.
My guess is yours shipped on 29 December 1917, as did mine.
Attachments
This 455 shipped July 29,1915 to Winchester for ammo testing.
Yes. And here's my letter:
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Shapleigh hardware may have had a very small quantity converted by the factory to 45 Colt. But that's a murky recollection and I don't have my notes here to confirm.
Okay I've reviewed my notes and here are the facts on .455 British Svc Revolvers chambered in 45 Colt:
By Feb 1916 724* were manufactured for the Canadians, chambered in 45 Colt, without a cartridge roll mark on barrel, presumed for the RCMP [H of S&W, 3rd ed., pg. 203].
Another 15** in 45 Colt were sold commercially in 1916; likely "over run" guns from the above order with consecutive #s. Only#46748 is known.
*"Roy's comments on that model might be helpful here [regarding an original Factory .45 Colt # 74744 that shipped on May 4, 1917]:" Bob 'Bettis1' #74301 also known.
**"The run of 15 with consecutive serial numbers, made in 1916 are all commercial, #46748 from that range is documented and owned by Jim Fisher. There is no cal markings on this gun and the only other markings are the standard. Roy had to research the build records to find them because the shipping records didn't list the cal. The front sights on these factory chambered for .45 Colt are a little higher [than 455 revolvers]. This is the only one of the 15 that is known. Roy said he guessed the other 14 were for a shipment to some other country." Jim Fisher 'bmg60' post #18 here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...d-model-hand-ejector-45-lc.html#post139086401
By Feb 1916 724* were manufactured for the Canadians, chambered in 45 Colt, without a cartridge roll mark on barrel, presumed for the RCMP [H of S&W, 3rd ed., pg. 203].
Another 15** in 45 Colt were sold commercially in 1916; likely "over run" guns from the above order with consecutive #s. Only#46748 is known.
*"Roy's comments on that model might be helpful here [regarding an original Factory .45 Colt # 74744 that shipped on May 4, 1917]:" Bob 'Bettis1' #74301 also known.
**"The run of 15 with consecutive serial numbers, made in 1916 are all commercial, #46748 from that range is documented and owned by Jim Fisher. There is no cal markings on this gun and the only other markings are the standard. Roy had to research the build records to find them because the shipping records didn't list the cal. The front sights on these factory chambered for .45 Colt are a little higher [than 455 revolvers]. This is the only one of the 15 that is known. Roy said he guessed the other 14 were for a shipment to some other country." Jim Fisher 'bmg60' post #18 here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...d-model-hand-ejector-45-lc.html#post139086401
Thanks for all the replies. I have decided on a Mark II 455 that is very nice.
It is advertised as Canadian but all that I have seen says 455 after Smith & Wesson on the left side of the barrel. Seller has no answer but top notch national seller. It has some crossed flags on the left side, some gibberish markings on the left side of the frame. What am I looking at and how do I know what country or what ammo???
It is advertised as Canadian but all that I have seen says 455 after Smith & Wesson on the left side of the barrel. Seller has no answer but top notch national seller. It has some crossed flags on the left side, some gibberish markings on the left side of the frame. What am I looking at and how do I know what country or what ammo???
Ivan the Butcher
Member
Crossed pennants with a "C" is for Canada. That Is everything I know about them.
Ivan
Ivan
Gibberish markings are likely British acceptance stamps. Pictures will help. Have you read through the research thread? I bet the answers to your questions are there.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
