S&W 500 Magnum light reloading with N105 powder and 50AE bullet?

[Marcie]

Hey fellow European Nice to hear there's another one with a 500 on this side of the atlantic haha. if you want to shoot relatively moderate, recoil wise, mayb you should try Hodgdon H110 in combination with the Hornady 350gr hp's. Yes always stick to the minimum charge, never go under with this powder. H110 in a 500 produces a HUGE boom and muzzle flash, BUT it isnt that hard on your hand/wrist as most believe it is.. it's more like a massive 'push' instead of a 'snap'... I loaded quite a few with Vihtavuori N110.. which is waayyy more snappy, thus i dont use it anymore.. H110 is just awesome Greetz from The Netherlands!

 

[troller]

What about these other loads?

TRAILBOSS?
Trailboss is rated to be used at 100% density on Lead Cast bullets, would that apply also to Jacketed bullets like a Sierra 400grs JSP bullet?
But again, Trailboss is a fast powder, but on the other hand no accidents have been recorder because it's basically impossible to double charge it...

4759?
Also, I've seen on a post on Castboolits (Why I don't use Titegroup in the .500 S&W... - Page 4) that Mr. John Ross stated "4759 is a GREAT powder in the .500. Load it to 100% density with ANY lead alloy bullet and you get a powerful load that is nowhere near max pressure, like a 550 long nose design at 1300 FPS where a max load of H110 with the same slug will go 1600+. No Dacron needed".
Here 4759 is a slow powder and that's good. But Hodgdon manual doesn't list it for the 500 SW.
Would in this case be safe and good to do 100% density filling on a plated 400grs Sierra JSP?

ACCURATE #5744
This is another slow powder. Good. The Accurate manual lists an EXACT loading of 31.8 grs for the Sierra 400grs JSP bullet as a "Reduced Load" and it states "no other load recommended".
But then the regular load for that bullet, and same COL, goes from 39.7 to 46.7 grs.
How is it possible that this load is safe from 39.7 to 46.7 but then at a reduced configuration only at 31.8?
How would it NOT be safe anywhere between 31.8 to 39.7??? Is there an explanation for this?

The more I read the more it gets confusing...

thanks again!

 

[ruggyh]

Using Trailboss as intended is no issue. TinStar is another powder similar in design that will work for cowboy type loads.

I have used/tried 4759 with no issues, along with 4227,3031, 4198.

I have not used 5744.

Some of the slower powders won't be as clean to shoot but pressures will be safe.

Its is easy to get confused because so many internet reloaders don't really understand internal ballistics.

Many think that just because they got the bullet to come out the end of the barrel and the gun is still whole the load must be good! Most reloaders in general lack the proper tools to determine if their made up load data is actually doing.

If you don't have pressure test tools then you a speculating.

As suggested in my first post get manufactures data and stay away from data which cannot be substantiated.

Fast powders were never intended for large volume and large cross section cases. With so many powders available today there is no need to make a poor choice.

Powders H110, N110, A9, Enforcer, 2400 all designed for this type of cartridge. I use 2400 a lot in 500 S&W with H110 a second choice until the bullet weight get past 400 then a move to slower powders like 4227.


Rant over

Load a few rounds with your N105 and stay within the guidelines provided by Vit and you will be fine.

I will get over to the my storage and dig out the complete John Ross information and get it to you some time this week.

All his data was actually pressure tested.

be safe
Ruggy

 

[troller]

Thank you for your help Ruggy!

Your sentence "As suggested in my first post get manufactures data and stay away from data which cannot be substantiated." is absolutely true but so is data on Titegroup from Hodgdon yet it appears so many blown up guns. That was my concern.

My goal is just to get a safe way of shooting a small bunch (30-50) rounds of lower recoil in order to get a feel of the gun and then move up to standard loads from there on.
But to be honest Trailboss seems toooo low power and useless for my "training", it would offer no benefit when jumping from there to a full load, if you know what I mean.

BR
Andy

 

[classichunter]

I went looking for Powder today. They had a bunch of reloading manuals open so you can look at them. The Lyman's 49th edition had a good bit of loads for both N105 powder and N110 powders in different bullet weights. I was gonna try some trail Boss but none was to be found. Guess I'll start with some unique and go from there. However the pressure seems kinda high with Unique.

 

[troller]

Anyone with the 49th Lyman guide kind enough to scan-shoot me a copy of the page for the 500 SW Magnum?

I would like to compare the minimum charges listed there for the N105 on bullets at 300, 325, 350 and 400 grains (and what COL).

Thanks!

 

[classichunter]

Did you ever call vihtavuori powders? Here's something I found on there web page.

.500 S&W Magnum - Handgun reloading - Reloading Data - Vihtavuori

 

[troller]

Yes I know about the published VV data; I also contacted them by email but got no response I wanted to know if there was litterature suggesting that a lower charge on N105 would be safe and has been tested or not.

 

[Road_Clam]

I've done some light plinker "cowboy" loads for my 12" 460 S&W mag. I used hard cast 255 SWC "Elmer Keiths" and found great accuracy and almost no recoil using 11 gr of WST. I also crono'd this load and I was at about 1100 fps. At some point I want to try Trail Boss as well, i'me hearing TB is an awesome powder for light loads.

 

[troller]

Ok guys I finally went out and shot the big boy; I still haven't purchased the lower-power powder I was looking for (it still has to arrive to my local gunsmith), but I wanted to really start using the gun so I used what I had available and was listed: the VV N-105, loaded with the 400 grs bullet @ 25 grains, exactly the minimum listed on VV website.

Simulating in QuickLoad and regressing from VV tables it appears to be around 400 m/s with a Energy of 2000 J.

I went to the range and shot 10 rounds, one by one. 8 of them with gloves and 2 without. All separated approx. 30-60 seconds each.

My impressions: with the gloves the gun in this load did not seem that nasty at all, very pleasant push, very fierce bang and somehow a "concussion" feeling but nothing to get hands hurting nor the barrel flying high.
Without the gloves, it hurted me instantly on the lower palm of the hand.
Me, i'm approx. 6ft3" tall, 155lbs.

The VV as always burns extremely clean and there was no fireball just a little coming out the front cone/cylinder gap.

All in all, at this power level the gun feels controllable, I managed to get the shots even quite well on target. I will slowly start working up 1 grains all the way to the 31 maximum suggested for this powder.

For those interested, a quick video showing what kind of push/recoil I experienced.

View My Video


I am happy with my purchase

cheers!

 

[classichunter]

Sounds like your finding a load that work for you. Gloves do help with the felt recoil. I haven't been able to find any shooting gloves and have been using leather riding gloves. Glad to read you like the 500. Mines become my new favorite.

 

[Nemo288]

Cheap fingerless weight lifting gloves work too.
The palms are usually padded which is the whole point.
I use these to ride when it's hot as well.

Not much to add re: N105.
I have tried to get N105 working in the 44 Special but it acts a lot like 2400 and is not producing the results I want.
Looking for something just shy of Elmer's 2400 load.
I think it wants more pressure than the 15-20K psi the 44spl is limited too.
I have gone back to Universal and CSB-1 for this.
Since you have QuickLOAD, I think you are well on the way to getting where you want.
Welcome to the forum.
It's addicting and very informative!

 

[troller]

One of the reasons I bought the VV N105 in the first place (much before getting the SW500) was to have a magnum powder to complement the N340 in my 10mm Auto Glock 20, and it is a great powder, powerful and very clean burning.

Here on the 500 on the other hand i don't like that much the fact that it doesn't produce a muzzle flash. The only (big) flash comes from the cylinder-cone gap, but at the muzzle end and on the compensator no fire at all.
I know it seems childish or irrational, but I would actually like to see a good fireball up at the front.

I have read that H110 and 296 are more flashy, as well as Blue Dot and Power Pistol (the lattest being a bit too fast...), and I would like in the future to try out one.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Nemo288]

If it is flash you want go to the next slower ball powder than 110/296.
Accurate 1680 fills the space left by the former W680 which was the main powder we used
when the 1.6" revolver rounds were being led into the light from wildcatting in the 1980's.
It is the slowest powder listed by Accurate for the 500 S&W and drives the big 500 grain Hornady XTP the fastest of any of their powders.
For lighter bullets you can get better performance out of some of their slightly faster powders but for flash 1680 is the way to go!
I am going to try magnum rifle primers next time out in the 445.
I get a nice light sabre of flame out of a 17" Encore.
Western/Accurate also lists several reduced power 500 S&W loads using #2 and 5744.
Download their manual:
http://blog.westernpowders.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/WesternLoadGuide1-2016_Web.pdf

I currently use mainly IMR4227 (and some W296) in the 445.
4227 is single based, small grain extruded, and has a more linear pressure response.
I may lose some fps over 296 but I feel safer and more in control of things with 4227.
Since there is very little loading info for the 445 especially for heavy cast bullets,
knowing that a 100% volume load has always been safe makes me stick with what I know.
BTW QuickLOAD is off when it come to the volume of IMR4227.
It's somewhat denser than they indicate. About 5%.
Sorry, no muzzle flash either.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

...I would actually like to see a good fireball up at the front. I have read that H110 and 296 are more flashy, as well as Blue Dot and Power Pistol (the lattest being a bit too fast...), and I would like in the future to try out one.

.

Speer #14 lists some reduced loads using Power Pistol, which I've used, as well as other moderate speed (Unique, Long Shot) powders. All give you plenty of flash, with a little less kick, if that's what you're after. Just double check your powder fill level before you seat the bullet.
Now go get flashed.

.