S&W End Labels-Are Any of these Phony??

haris1

haris1

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Hello fellow collectors. I have 3 "boxed" revolvers that I wonder if the boxes are correct only in the sense the labels just stick out as if something is wrong. Any and all input is appreciated. Hopefully, Brewster wont butt in and tell me to
redirect the 66-3 to 1980 to the present!!!Actually that box looks more suspect since the two piece box probably was not used then but maybe since there were overlaps.
Thank you .

The yellowed one looks more correct and the two white ones just dont look right. They just look too white for 30-35 year old boxes. The bottom one looks especially suspect due to the writing.


More Box pics that I think are probably "faked"



the 66 label looks wring because its way too white. the ink must have contacted something to look so wierd but look at the & in smith and wesson
Its in the wrong place!! I have never seen the "&" so off center



The 58 with the S prefix looks wrong since all the printing is so bold. I have nothing with such a bold font.
Has anyone?


What is strange about the 19 label is that there is a smith and wesson logo on it. Anyone have a box like that>



The "smith and wesson" looks very strange as far as the font and the label just looks way too white for its age
 
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Middle one is real. Top and bottom are fakes.

I have no problem whatsoever with anyone making a buck, or a LOT of bucks selling these guns, but I have a BIG problem with misrepresenting something for a buck. I hope someone didn't do that to you.

These fake labels are all over ebay.
 
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The one on the bottom is especially laughable... if you look closely at the LH edge, you can what appears to be the lines on the LH edge of the original label underneath.

But there are also people out there that are so good at it that they artificially age the labels, so a "yellowed" label isn't always indicative of a genuine one either.
 
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Agreed, top and bottom stand out as fake, bottom one especially -- actually lists "jeweled" as a special feature, and looks like it's imperfectly over another sticker. :rolleyes:

And fake "aging" is its own art, too.

This is on the uptick by my estimation and has taken virtually all interest out of looking for pieces with "original, numbered" boxes.

Maybe the proliferation of forgeries will drive prices down a little as astute buyers refuse to pay extra for things so easily faked; then again, maybe not -- hasn't stopped skyrocketing Colt prices, which is where S&W seems headed. :mad:
 
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I worked for a S&W dist. and several dealers in the late 60s and early 70s.
I use to check in the boxes in the warehouse and check the Sn. against the factory invoice. I dont remember the end labels ever being perfectly centered on the end of the box. Sometimes the label was on so crooked it sealed the bottom to the top of the box. We later opened every box and entered the Sn from the butt to the FFL log book. You sold a gun and threw the box in the dumpster.
I saved the SATs and cleaning stuff. Mike 2796
 
handwriting

If there is an inspector and a packer, is the rest of the label in a third handwriting or just two in total?
 
Although not about S&Ws, I know a man who purposefully seeks out nice Pythons with no boxes. He hammers the seller over the lack of a box. If he gets it he promptly orders a "correct" box which includes everything the gun would have originally contained. Then he works on aging the box based on the age of the Python.

The person he gets these forged boxes/papers from does fantastic work. The guy I know who buys these for his Pythons brags that it drives up the value of his Pythons by several hundred bucks because they are now correct to the point another buyer wouldn't know.
 
Club Gun Fan said:
Why?
I have no problem helping someone.
Click to expand...
I think wetdog's implying that to point out the flaws in the forgeries helps forgers improve their skill.

Real forgers already know what they're doing; idiot forgers will keep putting out lousy attempts no matter what.
 
haris1 said:
Hello fellow collectors. I have 3 "boxed" revolvers that I wonder if the boxes are correct only in the sense the labels just stick out as if something is wrong. Any and all input is appreciated. Hopefully, Brewster wont butt in and tell me to
redirect the 66-3 to 1980 to the present!!!Actually that box looks more suspect since the two piece box probably was not used then but maybe since there were overlaps.
Thank you .

The yellowed one looks more correct and the two white ones just dont look right. They just look too white for 30-35 year old boxes. The bottom one looks especially suspect due to the writing.
Click to expand...



The two 66 end label's are 100 percent fake, no doubt about it.

Eric
 
Hapworth said:
I think wetdog's implying that to point out the flaws in the forgeries helps forgers improve their skill.

Real forgers already know what they're doing; idiot forgers will keep putting out lousy attempts no matter what.
Click to expand...

Thanks Hapworth, That's what I meant. Reading it over I should have worded it better.
 
scott1970 said:
Although not about S&Ws, I know a man who purposefully seeks out nice Pythons with no boxes. He hammers the seller over the lack of a box. If he gets it he promptly orders a "correct" box which includes everything the gun would have originally contained. Then he works on aging the box based on the age of the Python.

The person he gets these forged boxes/papers from does fantastic work. The guy I know who buys these for his Pythons brags that it drives up the value of his Pythons by several hundred bucks because they are now correct to the point another buyer wouldn't know.
Click to expand...

Your inbox will now fill up with request for you to share the name. Just between you and me. How about his Gunbocker moniker, just that.

You can just PM me, save you a trip to the in box.

You can't put that out there and not tells a few of us (privately).
 
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ibewbull said:
As far as I am concerned the box adds zero value.

Most would disagree with you, like you said thought to each their own. I used to sell antique toys and it would blow your mind how much more money a box or original plastic blister would make the toy bring. This is just not true for guns or antique toys, but lots of other things as well. There was also plenty of people making fakes boxes, cards and blisters, but that is why you have to be knowledgeable in what you spend your hard earned cash on. I can spot most of them a mile away, but some would actually require me to bust out a jewelers loop and put it under a bright light to check gluing and the plastic, thats how serious it got :eek:

Eric
Click to expand...
 
I used to collect autographs, and became fairly good at spotting fakes while learning the nuances of good and bad forging. The bottom label is a classic poor forgery, as the writing is clearly forced trying to make it look uniform. It evidences a person trying to duplicate another style of writing (probably from a legit box label), while working slowly ... too slowly. The top box is better, but still looks inauthentic. Not many 20-30 year old box labels are going to be pristine unless kept out of direct sunlight, and rarely handled. Those two appear to be obvious reprints stuck on rather dinged up boxes. The third photo also shows the original label under the reprint on the left side.
 
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ibewbull said:
As far as I am concerned the box adds zero value.
As stated too many fakes.
Now a presentation case may add a bit.
Each to his own.
There is a 1999 Ford LTD down the road form me for $65,000 has the window sticker and a case of old Point Special beer in the trunk. Is it worth it?
:)
Click to expand...

Is the beer original equipment or an aftermarket forgery?:D
 
wetdog said:
Thanks Hapworth, That's what I meant. Reading it over I should have worded it better.
Click to expand...

I know what you mean, but, we all learn from everyone here. That's what makes this forum so special. I may be too helpful to a fault, but, again thats what we are doing. I thought I knew alot about Smith & Wesson's, then I came here. If someone is going to fake something, we have to be on top of it and make others aware. I could comment further on these labels, but, maybe I should just keep it too myself.
 
Club Gun Fan said:
I know what you mean, but, we all learn from everyone here. That's what makes this forum so special. I may be too helpful to a fault, but, again thats what we are doing. I thought I knew alot about Smith & Wesson's, then I came here. If someone is going to fake something, we have to be on top of it and make others aware. I could comment further on these labels, but, maybe I should just keep it too myself.
Click to expand...

Don- Unfortunately Yes, we do need to keep it to ourselves.

I think there was just a thread about this on here past few days ( I don't know how to find it) and in the thread it mentioned something about the Colt guys keeping tight lipped, because the forgers comb their forum reading the posts, and gleaning information on what they look for in the fakes.

It is kind of easy to get educated on it. I would not consider myself an expert by any means, but am pretty confident I could spot most fakes.

The stated ones here were obvious, but I would also know what to look for, and how, on lets say the middle label to determine if THAT was fake.

Again, I would not say I could be 100% ever.

So, in summation, I think the less said here the better.
 
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I do t get hung up on boxes. I want a great looking gun but one I can shoot. They can't forge the guns. What happens when people get hung up on details that are easily forged and not Important in the scheme of things.
JR
 
Fake or no?
157325016.jpg


157325019.jpg
 
Well so much for your guessing which is fake. Number 2 is 100 % absolutely not a fake. Both guns belonged to a friend of mine who passed away 4 years ago. He was not a collector and bought both guns along with numerous others New in the 1970's. Both guns are still like new.i have known him and seen the guns since 1992 long before people were thinking about faking boxes. I guess for those that do it will pay off since you can't tell real from new.
JR
 
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