As far as I am concerned the box adds zero value.
Most would disagree with you, like you said thought to each their own. I used to sell antique toys and it would blow your mind how much more money a box or original plastic blister would make the toy bring. This is just not true for guns or antique toys, but lots of other things as well. There was also plenty of people making fakes boxes, cards and blisters, but that is why you have to be knowledgeable in what you spend your hard earned cash on. I can spot most of them a mile away, but some would actually require me to bust out a jewelers loop and put it under a bright light to check gluing and the plastic, thats how serious it got
Eric
S&W End Labels-Are Any of these Phony??
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mc5aw
Member
I used to collect autographs, and became fairly good at spotting fakes while learning the nuances of good and bad forging. The bottom label is a classic poor forgery, as the writing is clearly forced trying to make it look uniform. It evidences a person trying to duplicate another style of writing (probably from a legit box label), while working slowly ... too slowly. The top box is better, but still looks inauthentic. Not many 20-30 year old box labels are going to be pristine unless kept out of direct sunlight, and rarely handled. Those two appear to be obvious reprints stuck on rather dinged up boxes. The third photo also shows the original label under the reprint on the left side.
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As far as I am concerned the box adds zero value.
As stated too many fakes.
Now a presentation case may add a bit.
Each to his own.
There is a 1999 Ford LTD down the road form me for $65,000 has the window sticker and a case of old Point Special beer in the trunk. Is it worth it?
Is the beer original equipment or an aftermarket forgery?
I know what you mean, but, we all learn from everyone here. That's what makes this forum so special. I may be too helpful to a fault, but, again thats what we are doing. I thought I knew alot about Smith & Wesson's, then I came here. If someone is going to fake something, we have to be on top of it and make others aware. I could comment further on these labels, but, maybe I should just keep it too myself.
Don- Unfortunately Yes, we do need to keep it to ourselves.
I think there was just a thread about this on here past few days ( I don't know how to find it) and in the thread it mentioned something about the Colt guys keeping tight lipped, because the forgers comb their forum reading the posts, and gleaning information on what they look for in the fakes.
It is kind of easy to get educated on it. I would not consider myself an expert by any means, but am pretty confident I could spot most fakes.
The stated ones here were obvious, but I would also know what to look for, and how, on lets say the middle label to determine if THAT was fake.
Again, I would not say I could be 100% ever.
So, in summation, I think the less said here the better.
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MikeChandler
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Fake or no?
Not sure about number 1, but my money is that number two is fake.
Has anybody seen the more modern labels, with the bar codes and all, faked? What's the danger on the newer guns?
Well so much for your guessing which is fake. Number 2 is 100 % absolutely not a fake. Both guns belonged to a friend of mine who passed away 4 years ago. He was not a collector and bought both guns along with numerous others New in the 1970's. Both guns are still like new.i have known him and seen the guns since 1992 long before people were thinking about faking boxes. I guess for those that do it will pay off since you can't tell real from new.
JR
JR
If a forgery is so perfect that it is indistinguishable from authentic, does it become authentic?
If you make a really good 100 dollar bill, is it still counterfeiting?
Not "really good", but perfect. Identical.
I pose this question as a bit of a lark, obviously, because of course fake is fake no matter the quality, but there is an interesting discussion to be had on the subject -- one that's been fought over many times in other mediums, like, say, the art world, where forgery is a much bigger business.
There are a lot of men, and some women, in Federal Prisons asking the guards that same question.
And many more who aren't, I'm sure. The question was ontological rather than legal.
MikeChandler
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Since you are not the original owner, you're guessing too. The font kerning looks wrong to me, but maybe it's just the picture. Also I am suspicious of the bottom right corner, the order the marks were made, and the level of detail on the label.
But more to the point - any label is suspect now that we have laser printers, and the information on aging labels is online. A determined forger could fake anything; I know that I could, and I am not a criminal, and not particularly intelligent or gifted in that area. But I do know a bit about fonts/layout/kerning... enough to fake a label if I so desired.
Factory boxes are overvalued.
MikeChandler
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But guns indeed have been forged - look at the number of colt police frames (troopers) that were mated with python barrels, the frame front welded up, sanded, then refinished, to pass off as a colt python, aka as "Colt Pooper". The only way to tell is the discoloration over time of the welded up area through the blueing. Many a Python owner has one of these guns - some bought in the late sixties and early seventies from gun shops, with full paperwork, receipts, etc. - so they are completely unawares.
With some S&W models being rarer than others, and the ability to make very detailed forgery box labels, I believe there are forged S&W's out there too; where ever there is money to be made there will be crime.
The "comes with box, tools, papers" line mean nothing unless I know the original owner. Any of that can be bought in the classifieds, and is.
Travispitt
Member
It's funny you posted this because when this revolver was for sale I was thinking it was fake. I even did some searching on fake labels after seeing it. It just looked too white and in the same handwriting
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MrTrolleyguy
US Veteran
Have any Forum members been "unmasked" as cheats?
If so, how did that go down?
If so, how did that go down?
I think both of these boxs are alright.
The bottom box has what appears to be dealer codes or inventory markings.
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