S&W Mod.1-1/2

[Exmilcop]

I've been offered this pistol by an acquaintance (more pics to follow). One head-scratcher for me is the case remover is a style I've not seen before. It looks like it was probably refinished at some point in its life since I doubt the original finish would look that good after all these years and the seller says there is minimal black powder pitting in the bore. Mind you, "minimal" is a relative term. It ain't cheap but up here good quality operational antique pistols command a premium. Any thoughts or input would be most appreciated.

 

[glowe]

Refinished, wrong ejector rod obviously replaced the original which was often lost on these tip-ups, and probably originally had a blued cylinder. One can make a replacement rod that is appropriately dimensioned and shaped without too much problem, but value is the key here. Nice looking example if one wants a refinished Model 1 1/2. No ammo anyway, so is a candidate for a display box if the price is right.

 

[H Richard]

Value would be not great, in working order maybe $350+ based on recent sales of some of my collection.

 

[Exmilcop]

Thank you all. Up here, prices are crazy for functioning antiques. The seller is asking $1350. (cdn) for the pistol and I doubt he'd go below $1200. He has a longer barreled later model (see pic) and he's asking $1500. for that one. And to GLowe, I have about 75 rnds. of viable .32rf ammo, some CIL and some Winchester so though I'd not shoot it a lot, I do have ammo for it. Should the gun/militaria shows ever get going again, I should be able to find more. There's some at a local auction that I'm watching. If I find good ammo, I'm looking at $6.-$7. every time I pull the trigger. Nuts, eh?

 

[first-model]

$1,350 CAD is just a hair over a thousand George Washingtons. I wouldn't touch the gun for that much, even in Canada ... it's clearly a reblued gun, and it was either made to look like a pinto or it has the wrong cylinder. And it has the wrong extractor. In any case, it's collector-repellant, and I think you'd have a hard time offloading it if you decided to upgrade.

Can Model 1 1/2's be easily imported into Canada?

Mike

 

[Exmilcop]

$1,350 CAD is just a hair over a thousand George Washingtons. I wouldn't touch the gun for that much, even in Canada ... it's clearly a reblued gun, and it was either made to look like a pinto or it has the wrong cylinder. And it has the wrong extractor. In any case, it's collector-repellant, and I think you'd have a hard time offloading it if you decided to upgrade.

Can Model 1 1/2's be easily imported into Canada?

Mike

Good day Mike. I'm pretty sure the cylinder is a replacement (no serial numbers) as is the case extractor. As far as I know, our law permits the importation of antique status firearms without violating the firearms laws. I'd have to determine if tax and duty would be applied.

 

[first-model]

Good day Mike. I'm pretty sure the cylinder is a replacement (no serial numbers) as is the case extractor. As far as I know, our law permits the importation of antique status firearms without violating the firearms laws. I'd have to determine if tax and duty would be applied.

Look into it ... finding a 1 1/2 in this part of the world isn't all that hard, and even if you had to pay some duties and taxes on it, it would still probably come out a lot cheaper than this gun.

Heck, if you just want a 1 1/2 to fill out a hole in your collection, I'd sell you mine. It's not the world's best gun, but it's complete and original except for one of the grip panels.

Mike

 

[Exmilcop]

Hey Mike! Thank you. I won't go off on a rant regarding the stupidity of Canada's firearms laws, but a little background on my post may be in order. I have a mod. 1-1/2 in fair condition, all matching numbers except for the grip. There was a lot of slop at the barrel hinge (a common problem with these) that I managed to repair somewhat. I have a friend who loves mine and wants one similar. I can get a 6" barrel model in very good condition for $2100. (cdn). I know that sounds outrageous to my American friends, but up here, that ain't too bad a price for a high condition antique. I paid $3400. for a totally reworked Mod.3 DA in .44 Russian, which is in one of my posts, and is in very very nice condition with all matching numbers and no discernable pitting. If the fates are kind, I'd like to find a Mod.1-1/2, 3-1/2" barrel, in superior condition for my friend. From the input I've had thus far from you gentlemen in the US, they seem to run about half or less (even with the exchange rate) than they do here. Any idea if such a item is on the market?

 

[McShooty]

Have to say that the long barreled example you posted looks like a Model 2. The cylinder stop is in the top strap, not on the bottom as it is in the first issue Model 1-1/2. And, the longer barrel is much more common in the Model 2. The hammer spur looks like a fixit job. Otherwise, it is a handsome gun. Refinished or not the metal and wood is great. A lathe and a good operator could make the extractor rod look authentic.

 

[glowe]

Have to say that the long barreled example you posted looks like a Model 2 . . .

The original gun in question is in post #1.

BTW, 75 rounds usually lasts about a half-hour at the range for me. Not sure why nobody is bringing back production of this caliber? Navy Arms must have cleaned up in the 1990s, selling out of stock in a relatively short time, even at $25 a box 25 years ago if I recall correctly. I am down to about 10 boxes of the old Navy Arms 32 Rimfire. Unfortunately, my guess is that the import market for ammunition is going to dry up soon.

 

[applefish]

The original gun in question is in post #1.

BTW, 75 rounds usually lasts about a half-hour at the range for me. Not sure why nobody is bringing back production of this caliber? Navy Arms must have cleaned up in the 1990s, selling out of stock in a relatively short time, even at $25 a box 25 years ago if I recall correctly. I am down to about 10 boxes of the old Navy Arms 32 Rimfire. Unfortunately, my guess is that the import market for ammunition is going to dry up soon.

I've heard of people "reloading" 32 rimfire with specially made cases from Dixie gunworks, that accepts an offset .22 acorn blank as a primer, and then reload normally with black powder and an approrpriate heeled bullet. But at $6 per case that's some very expensive brass!

 

[glowe]

They do work, but there use are a couple problems. First, every case has to be inserted into the cylinder so that the 22 blank primer is placed in a certain position in order for the hammer to strike it properly. Second, they require a special bullet that has to be purchased at a high cost. I have not heard of a bullet mold available for a 32 heeled bullet.

As for firing, I have heard that since one cannot crimp the bullet into the case, there is a potential for the uncrimped bullet to move forward and jam the gun during firing or just fall out of the front of the cylinder.

 

[Muley Gil]

You could probably made a taper crimp die for it. Once again, location of the cartridge in the shell holder would be VERY important, as I wouldn't feel real good about that rimfire .22 blank being pushed or pulled on.

 

[BMur]

Gallery load

Our Friends in Belgium who designed and manufactured this kit actually designed the bullets to be undersized for safety. The brass cases are "thick" and designed to hold the undersized bullet in the case tightly when loaded. Not unlike Smith & Wesson reloading kits for the "Ball" or gallery load. Some of the Antique bullet molds actually work for these kits but you have to do your "basic" homework. Mic the bore of the "specific" gun in question and match load it with the correct bullet diameter. "BLACK POWDER ONLY"!!

You also can not apply any type of crimp to these thick brass cases or you will ruin them. The brass is so thick and the "BLACK POWDER" load is so light that they maintain their mouth diameter without expanding. The kit is designed as a "have fun" kit by bringing your Antique back into action. It's not designed to win any target shooting contests.


Murph

 

[BMur]

Bullet molds

Here is a photo of the applicable bullet mold for the .32 rimfire outside lubed bullet. The photo depicts an early Remington bullet but Ideal also made re-loaders for the 32 Long and 32 Short which mold the correct diameter .316-.319 outside lubricated bullet. With the correct inside diameter heel. They actually press tightly into the Dixie cases. They must be hand lubed prior to firing.

The Dixie brass are re-loadable. So if you are gentle with them you can get a lot of reloading per case. Which cuts down on the initial cost quite a bit. It often depends on the gun that you are loading for ? Sometimes the early main springs are extremely strong and will eventually damage the brass case.

Murph

 

[WestKentucky]

I've heard of people "reloading" 32 rimfire with specially made cases from Dixie gunworks, that accepts an offset .22 acorn blank as a primer, and then reload normally with black powder and an approrpriate heeled bullet. But at $6 per case that's some very expensive brass!

I made my first one last night essentially copying the Dixie product. Did it all on a large and rigid drill press with a cross slide table underneath. Took an hour, but now that I know how to do it and not have to consider each step (especially clamping) it should be much faster for the next few. I'm making a full cylinder for my 1-1/2 in 32 and a full cylinder of conversion cartridges to just fire 22 colibri rounds. Brass rod was $12 for 2 ft so that's material for roughly 25 and if they take me 20 minutes each which is what I expect then I'm fine with that. The Dixie cases aren't a bad price at all considering it's at a minimum a 3 setup machine job. 1 to make a brass blank in 32 long dimension (roughly) a setup to mill the rim to accept a 22 case head, a setup to cut the chamber, and to do it right a 4th setup to cut the recess into which a heeled bullet can be seated. Realistically $6 is cheap for the work being done and I would have gladly paid it if they were available.

 

[glowe]

As far as I know, the kits are also available here.

32 RF - 38 RF - 41 RF reloading kits and components prices - HLebooks.com

Here is a video on reloading the 32 cases.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G4hs8XEOzQ&feature=emb_rel_end[/ame]