S&W model 3 Russian with issues

[K.R._Rabbit]

Good morning forum,
I have put some money down on a no. 3 revolver at a local gun store, it is what I would call a beater. It has been refinished to the point that there is no lettering visible across the top of the barrel and it has a few dinks and scratches. I am interested in it because the bore is good and it is solid, I plan on shooting it with black powder loads. A beater, but an original.
This revolver has two issues that I would like the forums take on. The first is the half cock. When you engage the half cock, any slight pressure on the hammer will cause the hammer to fall.
The second issue is the cylinder lock up is loose, not bad but not tight. I believe, based on my experience with cap and ball revolvers, the cylinder lock on this revolver is not going to be any real problem, but I am interested in finding out what it would take to make it right.
Thanks in advance for your advice. I understood when I put my money down on this revolver it was not collectable, but it is original and I would be proud to own it.
Rabbit

 

[mmaher94087]

Rabbit,
Are you positive it is a Smith & Wesson? There are many copies and some don't have any markings. I suspect that either the trigger sear or the half-cock notch is chipped. Make sure the revolver is unloaded then slowly pull the hammer to the full-cock position. Does the cylinder lock in battery at the instant the hammer reaches full-cock or do you need to pull farther back on the hammer to get the cylinder to lock? Armchair gunsmithing is difficult but you may need to weld and restore the half-cock on the hammer or weld and restore the trigger sear or both. Parts are difficult to find and usually expensive.

 

[K.R._Rabbit]

Hello mmaher94087,
I will check to see when the cylinder locks up on this revolver the next time I take some money in to add to my lay-a-way.
I am hoping it won't cost to much to fix, but I am glad to read in your reply that the hammer can be welded up and a new safety slot cut. As long as this revolver is fixable, I am happy. It is all there, but it has been used! I do believe it is an original S&W, I can see a very faint circle type of stamping in front of the cylinder catch screw. Maybe a letter on the side of the frame. I will see if I can't get some photos next time I am in the shop.
Thanks for your reply.
Rabbit

 

[mmaher94087]

Rabbit, I/we would love to see some pictures. The circle has me baffled.
Mike

 

[jleiper]

Possibly a contact revolver, both 2nd and 3rd models show these proofs

A 2nd model
Joe

 

[opoefc]

Joe has a good point. A circle stamp, as he has photoed, would make the gun a contract model. Does it have the spur on the trigger guard ? What's the barrel length? I'm not sure exactly which "Model 3 Russian" you are talking about, however. Old Model, or 1st model Russian ? 2nd model ? 3rd Model ? The problems you mention can apply to any of them but the solutions could be different. Ed.

 

[K.R._Rabbit]

The revolver I am looking at has the spur and lanyard ring at the bottom. I believe the barrel length is about 6 1/2 inches and I believe the revolver is a third model in .44 Russian. The local gun store I use caters to the cowboy action shooters, the owner had a box of .44 Russian ammo and the rounds chambered just fine.

The top of the revolver has a bigger screw on the top, bigger that the one in the photo posted by jleiper. If I can swing by, maybe Mike (the store owner) will let me take a few photos and I will post them.
Rabbit

 

[model3sw]

Not knocking your choice or decisions but when there are multiple issues on these old Model 3's, most times you are much better just passing it by. The mechanical issue with the falling off half cock usually means someone has been into the inside of it. in these revolvers you might get just just one chance to sharpen the hammer sear engagement stops with a fine stone, but most times you open it to find someone has taken a file to it. At that point the hammer and trigger (sear) is garbage. Critical issue is that hammer sear engagement affects the timing and lock up, too. Once that is off and it gets more difficult to pull the hammer back because the hand is pushing on the gear (star in the center of the cylinder) it starts scoring the gear and ruining the "hand" that rotates it. Not saying yours is like this because there I haven't seen it but it sounds like you are making a serious mistake in purchasing this one. Better to find one with no finish remaining but in excellent mechanical condition. The Russians were pretty sturdy revolvers but most of the entire series of the Model 3's are found in poor condition. e.g. shaky when latched closed, bad timing, loose lock up, hammer sear issues but the 3rd Russians and the Schofields seem to fare much better over time. You're much better off finding one that has little cosmetic appeal but mechanically excellent if your intention is to shoot it. Of course, always have these old revolvers checked by a competent gunsmith before you attempt to fire them. Research and choose your loads carefully. Phillip Sharpe, handloading book will have all the accurate loads you seek including the smokeless powder conversion loads for the .44 Russian black powder. No sense using full powered loads to put a hole in a piece of paper, I think. Phillip Sharpe was a genius at loading and custom loads. He was the one DB Wesson consulted for the .357 Magnum load in the 1930s and major contributor to the final production round and the testing of it (amongst many other major developments).

 

[opoefc]

K.R.Rabbit, Sal has just read you the Bible on S&W Russian models. However, all of us have gone thought the expensive learning process, thinking there was a quick fix we could apply. You're welcome to follow our footsteps! Good Luck. Ed.

 

[jbostick22]

I have a S7W model 3 in the 38 cal. I am needing a new hand and sear. would anyone know where I could possibly find one? thank you!

 

[model3sw]

I have a S7W model 3 in the 38 cal. I am needing a new hand and sear. would anyone know where I could possibly find one? thank you!

You're likely going to need to replace the hammer & Trigger, hand and star gear. Sometimes the gear can be saved but most times if it has degenerated to this condition, not. The Trigger end engages the hammer directly where the precision machined and stone polished stop notches are. You'll likely find the hammer is boogered beyond repair. To make sure it will function properly change the hammer & trigger as a pair.

There are no new replacement parts for these old Model 3's and parts for these (especially the hammer & trigger assembly) are as scarce as hen's teeth. so you'll likely end up buying another revolver just for the parts. The ideal solution is to find another like revolver with no finish or cosmetic appeal remaining but is mechanically excellent.

The stop notches in the hammer can be sharpened slightly, just ONCE, maybe, if not too damaged and if done by a master gunsmith by stone. Once a file is taken to the stop notches, there's no way I know of to repair it although I thought of a few possible ways but those ideas only seem to logic in theory.