S&W Model 39 Knock-offs???

[Redcoat3340]

I can think of a couple of iconic pistols that were "knocked off" by other manufacturers: FEG for Hi Powers; Taurus for Beretta 92's; Astra did a version of Sigs; Star and 1911s (sort of); and the Turks for a couple of different guns.

So I'm just wondering if anyone did a "copy" of S&W's model 39 (or 59)? I know FEG used the basic Smith firing mechanism in a series of their HiPower look-sorta-alikes. But did anyone copy the aprox. size and grip configuration of the 39...and make an all-metal; hammer fired; DA/SA; 4" single stack.

I gotta believe someone did, but I just can't bring any specific gun to mind. Wadda ya think?

 

[DWalt]

Not that I am aware of. If there were one, I would probably buy it. 39s and 59s I have seen are a little too pricey for me. I had a 59 a lot of years ago and foolishly sold it.

 

[Racer X]

Taurus isn't a knock-off. Berettas were being made in Brazil for their military, and when the contract ran out, Taurus bought the rights and machinery to produce their own.

 

[stansdds]

No S&W Model 39 knock offs that I am aware of. The M1911 holds the world record for knock offs, followed by the Hi-Power and CZ-75. Like Racer X said, the Taurus 92 is made on Beretta machinery, so it is not actually a knock off, but a licensed copy.

 

[Sevens]

I would say that the closest to the action design that I have seen are the Feg pistols, but they certainly don't follow the outside dimensions or look or feel of the S&W 39 or 59.

Cheap thread drift plug for no good reason except "I like guns!", I have a Feg GKK-45 that is a FANTASTIC pistol! For it's bottom-end price range, this sucker is a rock. Decent trigger, never a failure and it's accuracy would astound anyone who isn't familiar with them.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I can think of a couple of iconic pistols that were "knocked off" by other manufacturers: . . . Taurus for Beretta 92's;

The Beretta/Taurus relationship is actually pretty interesting, and the PT911 was not exactly a "knock off" of the Beretta 92. It was the exact same pistol.

Beretta won a contract to sell 92's to the Brazillian military and set up a factory in Brazil. When the contract expired, Beretta left Brazil and Taurus bought the factory building and machinery. Beretta stopped making the original 92, the patents expired, and Taurus started making the PT911 on an original Beretta production line, royalty and license free . . .

 

[Hair Trigger]

So I'm just wondering if anyone did a "copy" of S&W's model 39 (or 59)? I know FEG used the basic Smith firing mechanism in a series of their HiPower look-sorta-alikes. But did anyone copy the aprox. size and grip configuration of the 39...and make an all-metal; hammer fired; DA/SA; 4" single stack.

Couldn't you say that S&W copied somebody else when they made the M39/59?

The whole idea for the gun started after WWII because the US military had been impressed by the Walther P-38, which the M39 contains design elements of. It also contains design elements of the Browning P35 (BHP). While parts won't interchange between the guns, they aren't direct knock-offs, but they are similar enough in design.

 

[max]

A S&W rep told me the 39 was designed around the P-38 magazine.

 

[Sevens]

The whole idea for the gun started after WWII because the US military had been impressed by the Walther P-38, which the M39 contains design elements of. It also contains design elements of the Browning P35 (BHP). While parts won't interchange between the guns, they aren't direct knock-offs, but they are similar enough in design.

If we are looking for a pistol that really follows the Walther P-38, it's the Beretta series of pistols.

Except for the fact that the Browning Hi-Power made use of a double stack high capacity 9mm magazine and a magazine disconnect safety... the Smith & Wesson borrows nothing from the BHP outside of the fact that it's a handgun that eats 9mm ammo.

The system isn't the same. The action isn't similar on any basis. The barrel doesn't lock up in the same manner. The list grows about as far as we would choose to split the hairs.

While most modern and successful small arms owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to the pure genius of John M. Browning, the Hi-Power is only somewhat his brain child and it's only been copied directly. Most of the elements of the Hi-Power aren't good enough to have been copied by virtually every design that followed.

You need only look at the relationship between the Hi-Power's trigger and sear and then ask yourself what other guns make use of that? It is an interesting design, but there's likely a reason that nobody uses it.

 

[hkcavalier]

Yes, if you've taken apart a P-38, Beretta from the Brigadier onward, and a S&W 39, the family relationship is pretty obvious.

First time I held a Korean Lionheart, I thought, "This is pretty much a Gen 4 S&W." Closest thing I can think of re: a knockoff, but really a product-improved. I like them a lot, just not $700 like.

 

[MP-5]

Hmm....looks awfully suspicious! Maybe like a Smith 645!

Coincidence? I think not! !

 

[Sevens]

Bwahahaha, by looks... it looks about nothing like a 645.

 

[Redcoat3340]

Re Taurus: I know the Beretta/Taurus story but after the first run, didn't Taurus make their 92s with a frame mounted safety and then with adjustable sights? Which to me is sorta a knock off as they modified the original gun.

And I was just using that as an example of (a sometimes lower priced) copy of original an gun.

What I was looking for were examples of "other" 39s...and I'm guessing I was correct, there don't seem to be any.

 

[MP-5]

Sevens, I guess you are right, they look nothing alike.

I unfortunately wear glasses!

 

[Darkenfast]

Re Taurus: I know the Beretta/Taurus story but after the first run, didn't Taurus make their 92s with a frame mounted safety and then with adjustable sights? Which to me is sorta a knock off as they modified the original gun.

And I was just using that as an example of (a sometimes lower priced) copy of original an gun.

What I was looking for were examples of "other" 39s...and I'm guessing I was correct, there don't seem to be any.

The early Berettas in that series actually had the frame-mounted safety and that is why the Taurus version has them.

 

[gmborkovic]

Memory escapes me, but I believe in the 70s a machine shop was making
SS or steel frames that you could build a gun from. It was three letters in a triangle. Sorry, to many years ago.

 

[Gunhacker]

Hmm....looks awfully suspicious! Maybe like a Smith 645!

Coincidence? I think not! !

That looks more like a case of what if a Browning Hi-Power and a S&W M39 had a kid.....

 

[Sevens]

Yep, that’s closer, and the double-stack 9mm version of the Feg pistol would be the love child of a BHP and a 59 or 559.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

The Colt SAA is right up there for knockoffs, the S&W M39 never really achieved iconic status. It seems to me that making an unlicensed copy, even when the patents have long expired, would require a large investment in machinery. Then there are copyright issues, cf. the short life of the AMT Lightning.

 

[stansdds]

Memory escapes me, but I believe in the 70s a machine shop was making
SS or steel frames that you could build a gun from. It was three letters in a triangle. Sorry, to many years ago.

Bole Industries Incorporated, BII, is the company you remember. They only sold 200 finished receivers before the ATF forced them close. It is thought that several hundred unfinished receivers were sold to AMT upon closing.

Here is a link to a short discussion about one.
Model 39 - Stainless Steel? | Gun Values Board