S&W Model 39 Knock-offs???

People confuse the FEG 9x19mm pistols a bit.

The P9 is a direct copy of a pre Mk II Hi Power with 100% parts interchangeability. You'll also find some FEG P9s with FN markings. That was done by FEG on some P9s sold to countries that were under arms embargoes, and was intended to make it slightly less obvious that FEG was providing them, however the serial number format is a dead give away.

The P9M comes in two flavors.

The First Generation P9M was a P9 with a 1911 style slide release, an extended safety lever, and larger 3 dot sights, but was other wise a pre Mk II Hi Power with full parts interchangeability, except for the slide and slide stop.

The Second Generation P9M wasn't really a Hi Power at all as it used the S&W locking system. It just looked like a Hi Power on the outside.

To be fair though, the S&W system is itself a variant on the Browning system. In the Hi Power the system used in the 1911 was modified to eliminate the link, and the barrel bushing. The S&W system, is just a variant on the linkless Browning design but reverted to a barrel bushing in the S&W Model 39.

The P9R took things a large step further and it is a copy of the S&W Model 59 with the forward end of the slide resembling a Hi Power.
 
Couldn't you say that S&W copied somebody else when they made the M39/59?

The whole idea for the gun started after WWII because the US military had been impressed by the Walther P-38, which the M39 contains design elements of. It also contains design elements of the Browning P35 (BHP). While parts won't interchange between the guns, they aren't direct knock-offs, but they are similar enough in design.

What the US military was seeking to copy from the P.38 in the 1954 pistol trials wasn't the P.38 itself, but rather the concept of a double action/single action, decocker equipped pistol, with an 8 round single stack magazine firing 9mm Luger. It's that concept that interested the US military. However, with 2.5 million 1911s in the inventory, they opted to stay with the 1911.


If we are looking for a pistol that really follows the Walther P-38, it's the Beretta series of pistols.

Except for the fact that the Browning Hi-Power made use of a double stack high capacity 9mm magazine and a magazine disconnect safety... the Smith & Wesson borrows nothing from the BHP outside of the fact that it's a handgun that eats 9mm ammo.

The system isn't the same. The action isn't similar on any basis. The barrel doesn't lock up in the same manner. The list grows about as far as we would choose to split the hairs.

While most modern and successful small arms owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to the pure genius of John M. Browning, the Hi-Power is only somewhat his brain child and it's only been copied directly. Most of the elements of the Hi-Power aren't good enough to have been copied by virtually every design that followed.

You need only look at the relationship between the Hi-Power's trigger and sear and then ask yourself what other guns make use of that? It is an interesting design, but there's likely a reason that nobody uses it.

Your hair splitting is Olympic quality and you've made some erroneous assumptions.

It's correct Beretta did lift the locking block design from the P.38 and used it in both the M1951 and the Beretta 92, while retaining the open slide design from their M1923. It's the third most common locking system used on modern 9x19mm and larger semi-auto handguns.

However the gap between first and second is huge and the gaps between second and third is *astoundingly* huge.

Those systems are:
1) the Browning linkless falling block system;
2) the Colt linked falling block system (also designed by Browning); and
3) the Walther locking bar system, as used presently by Beretta and by Taurus in their Beretta copies;

You seriously erred in saying "Most of the elements of the Hi-Power aren't good enough to have been copied by virtually every design that followed."

The fact is the Browning Hi Power was the starting point for modern semi-auto pistol design and it's design elements are found in nearly every modern semi-auto pistol.

Linkless falling block locking system

In 1920 when Browning started designing what eventually became the Hi Power after his death, he couldn't use the link that he designed for the Colt 1911 as it was still the intellectual property of Colt. Consequently, he designed a block on the underside of the barrel that accomplished the same thing. The linkless falling block allows the barrel to remain locked to the slide until the slide and barrel had moved back under recoil long enough for the chamber pressure to drop to a safe level.

The fact is that virtually every modern semi-auto pistol chambered in 9x19mm or larger, regardless of the firing mechanism (striker, single-action or double-action) uses some minor variation of the Browning linkless falling block. Even the Glock (sorry Glock fan boys).

The exceptions to this are:
1) the 1911s and clones using the earlier linked system;
2) the locking lug block engaging the frame on the Walther P.38 and subsequently used on the Beretta M1951 and Model 92; and
3) the rotating barrel system used on the Beretta PX4 Storm series of pistols.

The Double Stack Magazine

The Hi Power also introduced the double stack magazine. That wasn't a Browning invention but rather was one of the contributions made by Dieudonne Saive. Again, it's found on a large percentage of semi-auto pistols made to day. In fact, with the exception of "micro" sized 9mm pistols, I'll argue it's a feature on nearly all 9mm semi-auto pistols.


The integral feed ramp


The Browning Hi Power also incorporated a feed ramp that was integral to the barrel and that is also a very common feature on modern semi-auto handguns.

The Magazine Safety

The magazine safety is a love it or hate it item, but it has also been a common design element on many modern semi-auto handguns, and it was introduced on the Hi Power.

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In short, if you exclude:

- the linkless falling block locking system used on virtually every modern semi-auto handgun in 9x19mm or larger;
- the integral feed ramp, used on a majority of semi-auto handguns;
- the double column magazine, used on nearly all non micro sized semi auto pistols chambered for a round larger than .380 ACP; and
- the magazine safety used on a significant percentage of semi-auto handguns;

then you are entirely correct in saying "Most of the elements of the Hi-Power aren't good enough to have been copied by virtually every design that followed."
 

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