S&W No 1, 2nd Issue

[Green Frog]

First, I’m aware that condition of this piece does not “make the cut” as a desirable antique BUT, it does get points for its history and provenance. As the title said, it a beat up example of a No 1, 2nd issue, serial number 43298. It’s been in my family since the late 1890s when my great grandfather brought it home to his young son (my grand uncle). It had been found in a ditch by the road and was filthy and missing its right grip panel. Uncle Raymond already showed a budding interest in machinery and guns. Over time he cleaned it up, made and fitted the replacement grip, and reblued the barrel and cylinder. The replacement of the worn plating was beyond his skills. So the brass shows through its nearly absent cover.

Mechanically, it has what is most charitably described as a “poor” bore but is otherwise actually shootable except when the hammer is cocked, the cylinder rolls past locked before it stops. I can then turn it back slightly until it clicks into locked position. At this point it functions correctly.

My antique S&W smithing skills are less than rudimentary, so I’m hoping someone can suggest what is wrong and how it can be corrected. I want to make my late Uncle Raymond proud! TIA for all help.

Green Frog

 

[mmaher94087]

Referencing: "...when the hammer is cocked, the cylinder rolls past locked before it stops.". 1) Does the cylinder stop and lock correctly if one puts a little downward pressure on the cylinder stop on the top strap? 2) If one lifts the cylinder stop and releases it, does it spring back into the frame? I'm thinking that your revolver has a bent cylinder stop or the spring under the stop is cracked (weak) or broken. Or both.

 

[Green Frog]

Thanks for the suggestions, Mike. If I put downward pressure on the cylinder stop, it does indeed lock as it should. Also, the cylinder stop moves don into its slot when lifted slightly and released. Does this suggest a weak spring or...?
Thanks again,
Froggie

 

[kscharlie]

Froggie, I suspect the split spring is broken. No one that I know of makes reproduction springs and they are scarce as hen's teeth. I had a broken spring on a No. 1 3rd issue and found a parts gun that had a decent spring in it, so bought the gun for the spring. Gave $50 for it and now my 3rd issue works pretty well.

Attached is a schematic that shows the two springs that go under the combination rear sight/cylinder stop. Also attached is a pic of my broken split spring. One of the "tabs" on the spring was broken off. These are fairly fragile to begin with and I doubt the time your gun spent in the ditch did the spring much good.

I was able to remove the top screw, drift out the pivot pin and replace the split spring. It sure would be nice if "someone" would start making repro springs for these. Hope you can get yours back into proper working order.

BTW, your No. 1 is still a good looking antique.

 

[Green Frog]

Holey moley, kscharlie! You are saying diagram part #4 with the blind, rectangular slot is what is probably broken in my gun, and the nobody makes them? I can’t even imagine how difficult it would be for the average 10 thumbed klutz to make one for himself.

Just as a random thought, wouldn’t such a spring still work but be less subject to stress if the ends of the slot were rounded instead of having those square corners? Is it actually split at the “free” end, or did yours in the photo crack through? Also, I’m having difficulty visualizing what function those cross pins serve(?)

Uncle Raymond may have to wait another generation or two, if ever, to see it “properly” repaired. Thanks for the continuing education, guys!

The Frustrated Frog

Edited to add: Re statement “… is still a good looking antique.” I guess for us poor mortals who haven’t seen all the pristine stuff that shows up here, it is. Of course the reblueing over a few pits, the mismatched grips, etc may give it character around my family table; meanwhile the purist would gasp in horror at such a sight.

 

[mojave30cal]

Why don't you build a nice shadow box for it and display it
along with a picture of your great grandfather. That's a
nice family heirloom.

 

[mmaher94087]

The Frustrated frog, please don't lose hope just yet. Your photos of both sides of the cylinder stop shows that the unobtanium spring is intact. With that solved, we're back to the bent cylinder stop or problem with the cylinder stop spring.

If you are brave, place an 1/8" of paper or two thicknesses of shirt cardboard under the cylinder stop on top of the hammer and whack the cylinder stop with a plastic mallet a half inch from the hammer. Whack it again if the first whack didn't work. From your description, I believe the springs are good and the cylinder stop is bent. Please let me know if thatworks as I think itwill.

 

[BMur]

Action issues

Charlie,
Your 1-2 looks nice.
That drag line in the cylinder is telltale of binding with the spring. It’s likely rusted up good and not fully functional. Specifically, the spring is not flexing full range due to heavy rust or as mentioned cracked.

Have you tried soaking it good with penetrating oil? See if a lot of rusty colored oil comes out of that slot.

Murph

 

[Green Frog]

Murph,
Thanks for the input but I think my pictures must have fooled you. The drag line is relatively new, and is due to my holding the cylinder stop down too tightly. No external pressure, no binding at all. I’m leaning toward the diagnosis of a cracked or weakened spring since everything works fine with just the lightest of pressure placed on the top during cocking.
Froggie

 

[BMur]

Rust/metal loss

Ok Charlie,
Well,
I still think rust is the root cause. Being in that ditch I’m sure applied a solid layer of rust to the barrel and cylinder. Probably rotted out that one grip as well.
Which required the removal of the rust prior to refinishing.
Loss of metal from rust removal can also result in skipping lock up.
I would wager the patent stamp on the cylinder is gone.

I’d have to see it in hand but adding metal lost to rust on the cylinder bolt tip would likely resolve the skipping lock up issue. You can weld spring steel if you know what you’re doing. I’ve done it successfully many times.

To test my theory you could put a small dab of JB WELD applied to the tip of the cylinder locking face. Let it dry thoroughly and see if that fixes the problem. If it does then a permanent fix would be a small tack weld at the same location buffed and polished of course.

Murph

 

[Green Frog]

Did I mention that it was found in that ditch in 1896 or so? It’s been disassembled, reblued, oiled, and functioned hundreds of times in the intervening 125 years! I think it’s safe to say the ditch rust is long gone! I’m going with the idea of a weak or even cracked spring until I get into it and find out otherwise.
Froggie

 

[mmaher94087]

Pull the cylinder stop. Clean out any crud and check the spring. The tip of the spring should be forward of the pivot pin. Please report back.