S&W Pre-Model 10?

[Curt32955]

Hello, I just bought a S&W revolver tonight from an individual (my first old revolver) and was hoping to get more info on it. I usually like to research the gun before buying but it seems that every time I take a day to look up info, someone else buys it so I kinda jumped before looking on this one...hopefully I didn’t mess up.
The gun is a .38 Special with a 4” barrel. It has fixed sights and is a 5 screw. It also has the strain screw on front of the grip. Serial number on butt is 643XXX. I took some pictures, hopefully I posted them correctly. Thank you for any info.

 

[Absalom]

Hello. Welcome to the forum.

You have acquired a .38 Military & Police model from the early 1930s, maybe 1933/34 or so. I assume there is no letter prefix to the serial as the small logo on the left should preclude that.

The grip panels are not original. The finish looks to be in very nice condition, but the notable contrast between frame and cylinder latch coloration makes me wonder whether that may be a refinish; the photos make it hard to tell.

 

[Texas Star]

Looks like a Victory Model, sans the usual lanyard ring, probably removed. Made from 1942-1945.

But the poor pictures leave me unsure if it's blued, re-blued, or has the normal Midnight Black finish for that model. That resembles Parkerizing. About 6,000 were actually Parkerized before patent issues arose.

The plain walnut grips do suggest a Vic, but may not be original.

Post better photos and someone will sort it out.

Give the serial number, inc. any letters,like V or VS. Those letters are part of the number and are very important!

Jack or Charlie or some other M&P expert will be along to tell you the date it was shipped, what the shop foreman had for lunch that day, and other details. You may need to pay $100 for a letter from Roy Jinks, the company Historian, to see where it shipped.

In the meantime, go to YouTube and watch the final clips of, The Bridges at Toko-ri, starring Wm. Holden and Grace Kelly, later Her Serene Highness, Princess Grace of Monaco. Look at Holden's .38 after he crash lands his F-9F Panther jet in Korea. Look familiar? You can also ID the knives the USN pilots wear on their survival vests.

What did you pay? Maybe $300? If it's in nice condition, fine. Some pay over $600 for a really prime example. But your grips are rough and the gun lacks the lanyard ring. I already mentioned the finish question.

IF it's a Vic, I often carried one in the USAF in the 1960's, as we were short of Combat Masterpieces and the Navy gave us a great many Victory Models.

The Victory is just a rough gray finished version of the Military & Police gun, the iconic Smith & Wesson revolver.

LATER: I just read Absalom's post. I looked again and think he's right about the S&W logo on the left of the frame. So, it probably is what he said. I initially missed that, due to photo quality. I should have copied the photos and enlarged Original grips were checkered, with silver medallions.

 

[Curt32955]

Thanks for the information, that was fast! There is no letter before the serial number on the butt. I’ll try and figure out how to post better pictures instead of those thumbnails. Thank you.

 

[Waveski]

Try to get a clear close-up of the side plate, also of the butt of the grip frame.

 

[Texas Star]

Best to get a good photo of the logo near the cylinder release but I think Absalom nailed that. Right front side of the frame should say, Made in U.S.A or similar wording.

Avoid PlusP ammo, which probably won't blow up the gun, but which will accelerate wear, esp. cylinder endshake. Buffalo Bore makes a full power wadcutter round that should be quite good for close range defense and small game hunting.

If Absalom is right about the date, the butt probably wasn't drilled for a lanyard ring. But price estimates I gave should apply, as there's a lot of overlap.

 

[DWalt]

It is difficult to place much faith in dating a Depression-era S&W based upon the SN alone. 643xxx could well have shipped any time between 1931 to 1936, or possibly even later, according to my records. Saying that it shipped in the early to mid 1930s is about as precise as one could get without a letter. And many PDs at that time could have ordered revolvers with lanyard swivels.

 

[Curt32955]

I paid $450 for it so I’m thinking I overpaid a little. I’ll take some better pictures when I get home from work. Thanks again.

 

[Curt32955]

Here are a few more pictures.

 

[Absalom]

Here are a few more pictures.

Yes, based on those new photos the gun was definitely refinished. The various angles show an almost oily, but semi-matte surface texture that is very unlike the standard polished blue of the factory finish.

They did a good job not messing with the case-colored trigger and hammer; most refinishers just cover those too, visually ruining the gun.

 

[Jack Flash]

I paid $450 for it so I’m thinking I overpaid a little. …

I don't think that is too far out of line if it functions well. Every time I buy a gun, I think I overpaid.

I was waffling on the re-blue or not question. After all, an oily look may come from a little over-enthusiastic lubrication. But it looks like the ejector rod also got blued, so I will go with Absalom's opinion. A re-blue may actually have improved its value, depending on what it looked like before, so don't let it bother you.

One other thing, does it look like the front sight has been slightly modified?

 

[DWalt]

I'd say that someone has done a little filing on that front sight. Not too unusual to see such a modification.

Regarding the price paid, I would consider it high, but not stupid high.

 

[k22fan]

Reblued? Nope. I know black paint when I see it. His story makes me want to keep buying from gun stores that have been in business for decades. They have to pay their mortgage or rent and make a living at my expense but they also have to maintain a reputation that allows them to stay in business.

Looking at the great condition of the case hardening on the hammer and trigger I'd start with paint remover and see what's underneath. I once bought a .348 Winchester that's exterior was entirely painted with thick varnish that had turned amber and was covered with fine cracks. Removing the varnish revealed very good condition bluing. My guess is a hunter varnished it to protect it from the whether. He hunted with an ugly gun so that a future owner he'd never meet could own a great collector item for a dirt cheap price. You won't know unless you look.

 

[Curt32955]

Jack Flash was correct, the gun was painted. I cleaned the gun with acetone and removed 99% of the paint. There is some damage near the logo on the left side of the gun but it looks much better with the paint off in my opinion. I attached some new pictures.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I should wait and let the experts comment - this is not my area. But I do agree with your initial reaction. Even to my eye, the gun looks SIGNIFICANTLY better since you stripped it.

 

[k22fan]

Now we can see you have an NRA very good condition original M&P that is well worth your $450! The little nick filled in its front sight to make the sight picture more clear is not ideal for collectors but it should work as intended. It would not bother me at all.

By the way, I'd appreciate it if you gave me credit for suggesting you strip off the paint rather than Jack Flash.

 

[murphydog]

It makes one wonder why it was painted at all. Maybe Rustoleum to keep it from corroding.

The proper stocks for it would the the smaller service type, with small silver medallions. Enjoy!

 

[Jack Flash]

Jack Flash was correct, the gun was painted. …

It was K22Fan that said that. Credit where credit is due.

It does look fine now.

 

[Curt32955]

It was K22fan that gave me that advice, I wonder how I messed that up??? Thanks for the advice, it was spot on.
And thanks to everyone for the assistance in identifying the gun.

 

[Muley Gil]

Glad it cleaned up for you.

BTW, it isn't a pre Model 10. Most collectors define a pre Model 10 as being a short action revolver that is identical to a Model 10, except for the marking on the frame. Your revolver has the older long action.