S&W Top Break - what do I have here?

[ISCS Yoda]

Guessing by the serial number of 17478 and the SCSW on page 95 indicates that the serial numbers of the .38 Double-Action 2nd Model run from 4001 to 119000, and it definitely a .38, my guess is as noted, a .38 Double-Action 2nd Model.

What confuses me are the patent dates on the top rib. After the company name, etc. there are 4 hard to read patent dates, the first appears to be Jan x 05 and the last appears to be May 11 05 followed by 1880. I don't quite get that if the gun was made between 1880-1884.

The gun is pretty beat up, as you can see, the right side hard rubber stock is badly broken but I think I have a replacement. It makes a nice decorative piece.

 

[BMur]

Patent reference

Patent reference is a wonderful thing. It helps us greatly to understand transitions in developing improvements in both design spec's and physical features of the antique firearm in question.

However, often features found on a firearm include very old patents and designs that have not been as yet improved upon.

See photo's. The specific designs are shown on the single action variation, yet they are also included on the double action model as well. In this case the 2nd model DA 38 TB.

There can also be "delay's" in application of the patent stamp on any given model. This is a source of confusion for many collectors who believe that a given firearm was manufactured earlier than it actually was. I get into this argument often with Merwin and Hulbert collectors who believe there example was manufactured in the 1870's because it has an 1877 patent date on the barrel?

Yet, if you actually "STUDY" Hopkins and Allen manufacturing? They are "WELL KNOWN" for developing a patent stamp much later than a feature was already in use. So patent stamps are not in anyway accurate from a stand point of "dating" manufacture. An 1877 patent date says nothing about when the gun was made. It only refers to an existing mechanical or design feature. It could have actually been made many years later and in the Merwin & Hulbert/Hopkins and Allen case? It very often was!!!!



Murph

 

[mmaher94087]

I believe the patent dates start with Jan. 17, 1865, and the last two are May. 11, 1880 and May. 25, 1880. (N&J Revised)

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I believe the patent dates start with Jan. 17, 1865, and the last two are May. 11, 1880 and May. 25, 1880. (N&J Revised)

Squinting, using a magnifying glass, I think that's correct.

So we agree it is a 2nd model DA 38 TB?

 

[BMur]

correct model

yep.

Murph

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Cool! I'll rename the picture.