Safe to Shoot? Coach Gun

[Dump1567]

Wanting a Coach gun, I found this used Meriden 12 gauge dbl. barrel in a local shop for $250. It had a 30 inch barrel made of steel (S marked). I believe it's a model 18 (stamped on inside of receiver). I guess these were produced between 1905 to 1918 & sold by Sears.

The action was tight and was in overall pretty good condition. I chopped the barrel to just under 20" and added a bead sight. As this has a steel barrel, would this be safe to shoot with light bird shot? Or even the short 1 3/4" Aguila or Challenger loads?

What's weird is I can't find a gauge marking on it anywhere. 12 gauge fits, as 16 & 20 are two small (the two other gauges Meriden made).

 

[Jessie]

If in doubt, take it to a smith and he can break out the calipers, etc. plus give it a once over to verify it’s safe to shoot.
Can’t imagine that would cost much

 

[Gunhacker]

A 12 ga. shotgun of that age may have the older 2-1/2" chambers, you need to have the chamber length verified because the longer modern day 2-3/4" length shells are not safe.

Shotgun chamber lengths include space for the crimp to unfold when fired, a modern plastic shell will still chamber in a shotgun with 2-1/2" chamber because of that space, but when the crimp unfolds it will extend into the barrel, causing a restriction and a higher pressure level that could make for a very bad day.

If they are the older length chambers, a gunsmith can ream them to safely work with the newer shells.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

We routinely shot 100 year old shotguns like that in cowboy action games. Nobody ever suggested that the chambers might be wrong for modern plastic shells. Interesting to think that the issue really does exist and next time I dig out one of my old guns I'll be thinking about this.

I'm thinking that if the OP's gun is not a hammer gun, which it is not, it's not too, too old. It might not have them (they were illegal in SASS games) but if it has extractors it's likely sufficiently modern to use modern rounds.

Edit - I meant ejectors, not extractors.

 

[Rpg]

That shotgun probably has 2 1/2 inch chambers. No need to lengthen them.

The chambers don’t need to be lengthened in order to shoot modern 2 3/4 inch shells. As a practical matter, there is little difference in the length of fired 2 1/2” shells and 2 2/4” shells.

There’s a long standing urban myth about pressure and short chambers.

A number of years ago Sherman Bell conducted a lengthy series of tests on pressure in old shotguns. These were published in the Double Gun Journal and are readily available. Folks would do well to read that research before repeating the erroneous myths about shotgun pressures.

The Meridian guns are good guns and yours will be fine with 23/4” lead shot shells.

 

[Gunhacker]

We routinely shot 100 year old shotguns like that in cowboy action games. Nobody ever suggested that the chambers might be wrong for modern plastic shells. Interesting to think that the issue really does exist and next time I dig out one of my old guns I'll be thinking about this.

I'm thinking that if the OP's gun is not a hammer gun, which it is not, it's not too, too old. It might not have them (they were illegal in SASS games) but if it has extractors it's likely sufficiently modern to use modern rounds.

I did the same thing too, shooting CAS with my old Stevens SxS... we probably got away with it because the small shot size allowed in CAS would pass through the restriction without raising pressure to a dangerous level.

I was told of the issue when I took my Win 97 to a gunsmith to have the barrel bobbed to 20" and a thin wall screw in choke tube installed.

 

[2152hq]

I've owned a good number of Meriden shotguns and a few of their rifles.
One of the last SxS was a Model 58, a very high grade Wm Gough engraved 12ga that is now pictured on the Meriden F/A site.

All the Meriden shotguns I've had (12ga) had 2 5/8" length chambers.
That was standard (if there was such a thing before WW1).
Meriden remained in business thru WW1 and went bankrupt in 1918. But those WW1 years thru the end in late 1918 they were under the control of New England Westinghouse. Their output was war material, not sporting arms.

Anyway,,the Meriden/Aubrey shotguns are very solid SxS's as are the single shot break open shotguns.
The SxS's are thru side locks. They are often compared with the LC Smith and they do have some common traits in their looks and build. The LC gets the nod for a bit better quality as a rule. But not always.

No gauge markings on the Meriden/Aubreys.
No choke markings that I remember.
The 'S' does represent Steel Bbl's. The number along side it was the bbl length in inches when original. ( S30,,for example)
Other bbls were T (twist), L(laminated),,D(damascus)

The composition bbl's were sourced from Belgium, the normal choice in that time for just about every maker.
I think the steel bbl's may have been made here. But I don't know if they were made in the Meriden plant or by someone else in the US.

Butt Stocks can be fragile and crack easily,,just like the LCS. Not a lot of support for the action once the inletting is done and if it's not done well, it lends to weakness and damage from shooting.

With good bores/bbls and a good lock-up, the Meridens have always been great shooters for me.
I've always used 2 3/4" hulls and have reloaded my own ammo so as to keep the pressures down.
I do that for all my shotguns as they are in the same elderly group and some have the shorter chambers as well.
Earlier AH Fox SxS were 2 5/8 as well incl the Sterlingworth. Not many people get concerned about shooting over the counter ammo in those.

I shoot(shot) smokeless in the damascus & twist steel bbl'd Meridens as well. Again the loads were right out of the books. Pressures were in the 6000psi (+/-) which is equiv to what BP 12ga loads run.
Over the counter loads of today no matter what the payload or the brass length, ect are just going to be about 9000+psi. You can bet on it unless they are specialty loads from someplace like RST that state on the box that they are 'Low Pressure' for vintage guns.
Stay away from these in a short chambered gun or IMO any vintage shotgun regardless of proper chamber length or not.
These are 100y/o firearms, bhistory unkn.
Treat them kindly and they'll continue to serve you.

There are plenty of (re)load recipes that'll give you the same 1200fps as a 9000psi factory load, but at 6000psi and even lower.

Velocity does not necessarily need high pressure...
and what was a normal service load & psi in 1908 w/ early smokelesspowder of the day is usually a long way on the chart from what is considered a service load today.

Sold my last functioning Meriden not long ago, a Single Shot Hammerless Trap 12ga.
Only one left now is an 'in the white' complete metal but never stocked, plain 12ga hammer break open single. Steel bbl.
Too big to be a lunchbox special!

 

[Dump1567]

I order some RST light loads just to try out the gun.

 

[Pig Hunter]

The Winchester Low Noise Low Recoil load can also be used in older guns. Promo loads whatever manufacturer are made to run dirty auto loader. That means top end pressures and soft shot. Inside a home you don't need magnum buckshot or slugs for defense an ounce of birdshot can be very effective. If you want to plug the holes between the ribs and the barrels, pack some oil free steel wool in the voids and use a solder iron to fill the remainder with solder and then file flat.

 

[1911haulic]

That's a nice find. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Pondoro]

Brass shells and black powder would be fun in that gun, if you have the patience to reload.

 

[Dump1567]

If you want to plug the holes between the ribs and the barrels, pack some oil free steel wool in the voids and use a solder iron to fill the remainder with solder and then file flat.

It took me awhile to find my solder, but I took your advice. Looks much better. Thanks.

 

[ggibson511960]

Nice old double converted to good use. If it were mine, I would make sure the sears held. Few of these old timers had interrupting sears, i.e., they can go off without the trigger being pulled if the sear engagement slips. Not a terribly big deal on a dual trigger double gun, but if it were mine I would gently bump it on the floor with the safety off to make sure the sears held. Doubles can double. A little known bit of trivia is that the much lauded L.C. Smith doubles of that era did not have interrupting sears. The gun won't burst if it doubles, but stocks can split and you're empty when it happens if that matters.

 

[DWalt]

A 12 ga. shotgun of that age may have the older 2-1/2" chambers, you need to have the chamber length verified because the longer modern day 2-3/4" length shells are not safe.

Shotgun chamber lengths include space for the crimp to unfold when fired, a modern plastic shell will still chamber in a shotgun with 1-1/2" chamber because of that space, but when the crimp unfolds it will extend into the barrel, causing a restriction and a higher pressure level that could make for a very bad day.

If they are the older length chambers, a gunsmith can ream them to safely work with the newer shells.

None of that is correct. There is no danger in firing longer shells in a shorter chamber, so long as the shotgun is in otherwise good condition. This has been discussed numerous times here and elsewhere. A slight bit of case length above the chamber cannot increase pressure.

 

[bulletslap]

In addition to the worry about the strength of the action and barrels, the wood is also of concern. Especially on a a side lock style such as yours.

Insure that the wood to metal fit is tight, not cracked, or the old wood has not shrunk over the decades.

RST makes very nice ammo, and shotgun shell reloading is certainly worth doing.

 

[gwpercle]

A 12 ga. shotgun of that age may have the older 2-1/2" chambers, you need to have the chamber length verified because the longer modern day 2-3/4" length shells are not safe.

Shotgun chamber lengths include space for the crimp to unfold when fired, a modern plastic shell will still chamber in a shotgun with 1-1/2" chamber because of that space, but when the crimp unfolds it will extend into the barrel, causing a restriction and a higher pressure level that could make for a very bad day.
Chamber Length - Big thing to check
If they are the older length chambers, a gunsmith can ream them to safely work with the newer shells.

Do take it to a gunsmith and do verify the chamber length if it isn't clearly marked on the barrel . Shooting longer modern shells in shorter chambers drives the pressure up a good bit and there is no use taking a chance .
Condition can't be determined from photo's ... get a check up.
Gary

 

[Buford57]

Short chambers are dangerous; no, they aren't. Are not; are so. Thoroughly disproven; common knowledge. Urban myth; scientific fact. Are we all clear on whether the gun is safe to shoot with 1 3/4 inch Aguilas?

 

[bulletslap]

The Augilla shotshells are NOT low pressure shells, I wouldn't shoot them in that shotgun, others may have a differing opinion.

 

[Muley Gil]

Nice old double converted to good use. If it were mine, I would make sure the sears held. Few of these old timers had interrupting sears, i.e., they can go off without the trigger being pulled if the sear engagement slips. Not a terribly big deal on a dual trigger double gun, but if it were mine I would gently bump it on the floor with the safety off to make sure the sears held. Doubles can double. A little known bit of trivia is that the much lauded L.C. Smith doubles of that era did not have interrupting sears. The gun won't burst if it doubles, but stocks can split and you're empty when it happens if that matters.

When was about 16 years old, I bought most of a double barrel Knickerbocker shotgun. The action, barrels and forearm were present, but no buttstock. The price was $2!

Couldn't find a buttstock (pre Internet days), so I glued two pine boards together and tried my hand at inletting a sidelock. It wasn't pretty, but it kinda pointed like a shotgun.

Went squirrel hunting, but didn't see one. Walking back to the house, I did spy a pine cone. I took aim, slipped off the safety and squeezed the right trigger. BOOM!!! I almost got knocked on my, err, donkey. It seems the left sear let go as well. When I got home, I took the left lock apart and the sears were almost completely worn out. I'm guessing the left barrel was shot the most, as the right lock was in good shape. I dismantled the left lock and then had a really heavy single shot.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I had a slightly older "Crescent" (same factory) hammer gun in 12 gauge Cut to 20". The chambers were not altered and I shot hundreds of AA's Trap/Skeet 1 ounce and never had any problems.

Depending on shot size, your pattern will be 1" (larger shot) to 1 1/2" (smaller shot) per yard from muzzle. (30 to 45" at 30 yards! Great for rabbits if you don't use dogs!

Ivan