Safety on lever action rifles?

Hello86

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I started this thread earlier: http://smith-wessonforum.com/firearms-knives-other-brands/696957-1866-vs-1873-lever-action-rifle.html#post141686417

I am most interested in one of the historical 1866 or 1873 rifles, for the historical experience, for plinking, for home defense that that thread was about.

But something I read someone wrote elsewhere, was that the safety on the new copies of the 1866/1873, is more or less accurate as they historically were, which is the point, but that also the poor safety from the 19th century comes with the purchase. I hadn't really thought about that. For example, if you happen to drop the rifle and it is loaded, the rifle can shoot by itself, since unlike similar new rifles, there is no built-in safety that prevents this.

Then also if you have to unload the tube magazine, as I understand it, you have to work with action for each shot to come out, which can be dangerous, as it is not uncommon to accidentally shoot the weapon. It does not feel so safe really, and especially not if more than me, family members, etc. are going to shoot the weapon.

I have heard many people say that modern rifles from Henry repeating arms are the most safe option, they both have built-in protection so that the rifle does not shoot if you happen to drop it, and you can both load and more importantly reload quickly, safely and easily, by emptying the tube magazine. Here: Henry Color Case Hardened 357 Mag Lever Action Review - YouTube and here: Henry 45 70 Side Gate Lever Action Rifle Review - YouTube for example.

While others believe that loading close to the muzzle as on the Henry rifles can also be dangerous and that unloading is not as effective and safe as claimed.

(Also Henrys, rifles (except the 1860 Henry rifle) are not historical, although their Henry Big Boy in brass seems quite similar to the 1866 rifle.)

So I became somewhat uncertain about how to think about safety. Anyone here who has experience and can tell me what is true about safety and what I should consider?

Thank you.
 
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I think a person interested in historic lever actions must accept the 19th century technology as is.

The way to mitigate the danger posed by the lack of modern external safeties is to always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and do not keep a round in the chamber unless shooting. Col. Cooper has a section on lever action manipulation in Art of the Rifle that I thought was quite good.

You do not have to chamber a round to empty a Winchester magazine tube. When the lever is all the way forward you can reach in a pluck out the round about to be chambered, or turn it upside-down and the round will likely fall out. Then, close the action and repeat. Easy!

I am a huge fan of the lever action. All of them. However, there in nothing like the old Winchesters. They have dynamic handling qualities all their own. The Marlins and Henrys are fine rifles. I enjoy the ones I have and have had, but they are just not the same.
 
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Something few would give thought to, even the most safety-conscious shooters, particularly those familiar with lever-action rifles. If someone felt a need for a safety on a lever-action rifle, perhaps another action type would better suit them.
 
It’s his rifle so if he’s nervous about the safety, he should get a rifle that meets his safety concerns.

I have no interest in the newer lever action guns in part because of those newer safety arrangements, but I’m pretty confident in my ability to safely operate either new or old lever action safeties. A lot of that is my mussel memory for operating lever action guns after many decades of experience.

It’s no good to encourage someone to acquire a gun that they’re frightened of.
 
The Miroku-built versions of some of the 19th century Winchesters use a rebounding hammer and a manual safety on the tang. Thus, they are as safe as any other rifle of modern manufacture. These are used on the 1886 and 1892 versions. They do not include these features on the 1873 or 1866 versions, however. Modern Marlins use a safety that blocks the hammer. This makes it safe to unload by running cartridges through the action. Of course, the normal safety rules always apply. Having said that, I've used the old-style lever guns in various models for 60+ years. Never had an accidental discharge and, if I did, it would hit nothing but the dirt. I learned to use them long ago and I am perfectly comfortable with them just as they were 150 years ago.
 
Thank you all for your help. Maybe it is even the case, that as long as I do as you write about here, the old 1866/1873 rifles might even be safer than the new Henry rifles, considering that they are loaded right next to the muzzle?
 
The historical safety for lever guns is the half-cock position, in lieu of an unloaded (or spent shell) chamber.

Modern Marlin rifles have a cross-bolt safety in the receiver, which blocks the hammer. Modern Moroku/Winchester lever guns have a tang safety, and a positive hammer block operated by an extended trigger pull, but no half-cock position per se. The hammer retracts automatically when the trigger is released, much like in a modern revolver.
 
If you watch Laban Teale work his 1866 on Conagher you will want one. Find one of the Miroku Winchesters. It will be expensive, but worth it. Of course, the original 1866 shot the 44 Henry rimfire and nothing else, so if you want as close to original as possible a Miroku Winchester 1873 in 44-40 is the one. It is also featured in Conagher. My favorite movie as you have probably guessed.
 
So, get a Miroku/Winchester 1892....I dont like the tang safety, but it dont bother me..Great shooter in .357...slightly picky in .38spl..handloads cure that...loads of fun to shoot..very safe gun

Just a note regarding this rifle in .45 Colt... While an excellent gun and reasonably accurate, cast bullet loads using the popular Lyman #454424 SWC design ( about 260 grains), required the bullet be seated considerably deeper than for revolver loads for them to function through the magazine of the 1892 reproduction Miroku. Whether or not this holds true for any other bullet designs, I don't know.
 
Tube loading is not unsafe, if basic safety rules are followed. millions of us have done it since we were kids with.22 rifles.


I have done that a few times, but 99% of the time back then, it was emptied by rapidly pulling the trigger on a dancing coke can!
 
The old Mossberg/Western Field M72 had a safety. I'm talking a lever on the left side of the receiver. The rifle was more of a Marlin knock-off with side ejection.
 
The best safety for lever actions or any gun is the 6 inches between your ears.......I detest extra safeties on traditional lever guns.

^^ Yep, I agree. I have a newer Marlin with the cross bolt safety that I removed and replaced with a safety delete kit. I also removed the hideous bolt safety on my Rossi 1892. I am not a fan of classic lever guns that have been modified with added manual safeties.

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I own a number of Model 1892 and Model 1894 rifles and carbines as well as a Marlin 39A and a few 9422s with the traditional quarter cock hammer system. Only one of them is equipped with a modern safety, and I don’t have any reservations about carrying any of them in the field.

That’s still the case even though my father managed to shoot shoot himself with a Model 1892 in .32-20 when he was 16. He was carrying it loaded on a tractor with the lever closed and the hammer set on the quarter cocked notch. Unfortunately the rifle slipped and the hammer struck the axle of the tractor on the way down. It fired and the bullet entered under his lowest rib and exited out through the shoulder blade. He walked about a mile and a half to the house and survived just fine, with a couple scars but a lot wiser.

Fast forward about 30 years and he was serious about teaching firearm safety to his kids, for obvious reasons, but had nothing against using a Winchester 1892 or 1894 as he recognized the fault was his not the gun’s.

I also took an NRA Hunter Safety Course at age 12, a requirement to obtain a hunting license at an age under 16. Consistent with what my father taught us, the instructor reinforced that the basic method of rendering a firearm safe was to open the action.

That works every time on a lever gun.

The Model 1892 and earlier model Winchester lever guns only have a quarter cock notch on the hammer. However, on this Model 1892, as soon as the action is opened even slightly, the firing pin is retracted and blocked so that the round cannot fire out of battery.

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The Model 1894 had two significant changes in the operating system. The first involved the locking lug across the back of the bolt with essentially a transfer pin for the firing pin. As soon as the locking lug drops even slightly, it eliminates any contact between the hammer and firing pin.

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The second major difference is the use of a grip safety. The top surface of the lever presses up on a stud that is connected to a counterpart behind the trigger. It prevents any rearward motion of the trigger until the lever is fully depressed.

1892 with no grip safety:

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1894 with grip safety:

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With any of these rifles or carbines the firearm is safe as long as the lever is lowered even slightly as the action is open and the firing pin protected from any hammer blow. With this 1892, with the hammer in the quarter cock notch, the lever will only drop a short distance and won’t eject the round or cause a feed issue. This is how my father should have carried it on the tractor. It’s also how you’d cross a fence with it (also laying it on the ground while you cross) or carry it in rough terrain where you might slip and fall.

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The grip safety on the Model 94 adds another level of protection as it prevents the trigger from moving rearward unless the lever is fully depressed.

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Note however the quarter cock notch can still be sheared if the firearm falls in a manner that a solid object hits the rear of the hammer. However, also note that a tang safety does a good job of protecting the hammer from a blow from the rear. Had my father’s 1892 had a tang sight it’s unlikely he would have been shot.

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In 1982, Winchester added a rebounding hammer. It incorporates a hammer block on the trigger that engages after the hammer falls and rebounds and remains in place until the trigger is pulled again. That provides protection against the hammer striking the firing pin of the rifle or carbine is dropped.

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In late 1991, Winchester added a cross bolt safety that was pretty well universally hated due to the divot and cross bolt in the receiver. However it at least did not interfere with a tang sight.

The current crop of Winchesters utilize a tang safety that came along shortly before production was moved over seas to Miroku.

It allows the 1894 to be set on safe while allowing the action to be cycled to unload the weapon.

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However it interferes with a tang sight, requiring it to be moved farther aft on the tang, right where the thumb usually comes over the top of the tang. The tang safety thus requires the shooter to hold the rifle with the thumb alongside the tang. I’m not a fan and the odds are good this .38-55 will end up with a Williams receiver sight instead.

It’s also worth noting the safety is entirely redundant. When unloading a Model 94, the action can be cycled without depressing the grip safety, so the trigger is still locked.

Even on the 1892, you can still unload the rifle or carbine by slightly short stroking the lever on the way back up so that the firing pin is never unlocked.

It’s worth noting that Uberti and Chiappa/Armi Sport replicas are not sold with anything other than the original safety devices. Yet ADs are not happening with them anymore than they do with other safety equipped firearms.

That willingness to produce a forearm without multiple redundant safeties is also due to Europe having the good sense to keep lawyers in check and protect people and businesses from frivolous lawsuits where the fault lies with the user, not the product. Our overly litigious “everyone blame the gun and the people who made it” society is why we can’t have nice things.
 
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^^ Yep, I agree. I have a newer Marlin with the cross bolt safety that I removed and replaced with a safety delete kit. I also removed the hideous bolt safety on my Rossi 1892. I am not a fan of classic lever guns that have been modified with added manual safeties.


I replaced the ineffective “pig tail” safeties on my Rossi 92s with filler plugs because the safety was both not necessary and was unreliable. The bolt mounted safety is easily moved from safe to fire by any contact at all with brush. There’s no sense having a safety if it doesn’t stay on “safe” until you move it to “fire”.

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I am a fan of savage 99 & win ‘92s. Missed a shot with a Marlin 94 because I didn’t have the lever squeezed tight enough. No more lever safeties for me. I am impressed with the Miroku model 92s a compact smooth quality gun; even their 86, but it’s a bit unwieldy.
 
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