Sanity check on Trooper Mk III

drumminor2nd

Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2011
Messages
144
Reaction score
215
Location
WNY, USA
Hey, all. Found a Trooper Mk III 4" blued in .357 at a LGS. Tag was about $800.

Overall very good, some holster and edge wear, bore is spotless, but there's a BB-sized spot of red crusty rust near the grip on the side plate. It's filthy and has what appear to be Sile or some other mediocre aftermarket grips instead of the originals. No box or papers.

For some reason it just "feels" like too much for it, especially needing grips. I don't "need" another .357 (6" 27-3 and 2.75" Ruger Security Six, though it would probably replace my Ruger as it's a bit nicer in appearance) but I'm thinking about it. Thoughts? A good counter-offer price?
 
Register to hide this ad
I'd check completed auctions for a good sense of price point. Relatively speaking, these have gone up a lot when our frame of reference goes back even 3+ years.

Personally, it's probably not too out of line for a good shooter and classic Colt.

I'd definitely use the rust as a point of negotiating and offer $700.00. If they counter, mention replacement grips and edge wear. Then ask with emphasis what is their best price cash, sold now, write it up number.

My mind still wanders from time-to-time on pricing from years ago. :rolleyes: Completed sales is your best bet.
 
^^^what The Hobbyist said. Don't understand how folks can expect to get top $ on guns that are "filthy." Also, the mediocre grips. I wouldn't want it at all, but $700 would be the absolute top and I would offer WA-AY below that. There are better ones out there.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

P.S. As to replacing your Ruger, I absolutely hate to replace a top-line revolver.
 
Hobbyist is correct.

Way too many dyed in the wool shooters fail to comprehend what on line auctions have done to the market value of firearms.

In the past, an uncommon, or collectible, or just unusual and low demand, firearm might sit on the rack in a local gun shop for years and the owner would then accept a low ball offer, or even throw you a really low ball price if you showed interest in it.

They'd do that because local gun shops on average pay about 50% of market value when they buy a gun as they know they may have to sit on it awhile taking up space and it's share of the over head costs. Eventually if it doesn't move they'd heavily discount it just to turn it back into money to buy and re sell something else. Getting the full market price on an uncommon firearm required that they actually have an interested buyer looking for that niche market gun walk in the store.

Blue books were also heavily relied on in the past to establish value, but they were a) out of date before they were even printed, and b) were heavily biased toward dealers who need to understate value to ensure a healthy margin.

The internet gun action sites changed both those models. Nearly all gun shops now also list firearms on GB or GI and that allows them to connect that uncommon gun with a buyer willing to pay what it's actually worth, and in some cases they can connect with two or more interested parties who then bid the price up.

The old school crowd will decry such things as driving prices up to unreasonable levels, or scoff at the folks who pay "too much" as not knowing the value of those firearms. There are some cases where buyers get carried away and pay way too much, bit for the most part on line sales just represent the ability for a seller to get a fair market price, when they have access to a much larger group of prospective buyers.

Most of those same old school folks are also the same folks who are stuck a few years in the past when it comes to gun values. For example, about a decade ago I bought a minty 9422 XTR for the outrageous price of $700 and was told by several old farts that I paid way too much and they wouldn't have gone past $450. A couple of those folks were folks who really ought to have FFLs as they buy with an eye to flipping for a profit fairly soon, but the rest were just out of touch with the rise in prices for minty 9422s. That same $700 rifle would bring $1200 today and not break a sweat.

Even if they had been correct, when it comes to guns that are no longer made and are in limited supply, your never pay too much, you maybe just buy too soon. If you hold on to it, it's value will exceed what you paid for it.

Don't get me wrong. I miss the days of being able to find a real dust covered gem in a shop where the owner is willing to just get his cost back out of it. But those days are gone.

The reality now is that we all have a very good means to determine value in the form of looking at completed on line auctions for firearms in similar, lesser or better condition. There may still be outliers and you need to beware of some shady auction practices but if you can find a half dozen recent completed sales for a firearm, you'll have a good idea of full market value.

——


In terms of this specific Colt Trooper, I'm in the "not more than $700" camp.

There have been a number of all original Colt Troopers with no box and in very good to excellent condition selling in the $700-$800 range.

You need to consider both the non original grips and the cost of finding a set, plus the rust spot. That will drag the price down a couple hundred from the $800 asking price.


On the other hand, while they come up for sale all the time on line, you have to pay shipping and transfer fees. That's usually goio be about $40 to ship a handgun and $25-$50 for transfer fees depending on your local shop's price fixing and amount of gouge for the service. So you have to add back in another $65-$90 and $700 is pretty much where you land.
 
Nothing is staying the same or getting cheaper….it may be more than you want to pay but that is simply the market conditions. One might show up cheaper but who knows when and where. So buy it or wait and see if a 500 dollar gun comes around…..never going to happen.
 
Here in Australia, we see some ridiculous asking prices for Colt Troopers (when they do come up which isn't all the time). These sellers think that they have a Colt Python just without an underlug.
 
High prices on anything made by Colt is the result of the Colt Collector Cult. Sorry, but the Trooper nor Lawman models are not and were never a top tier Colt revolver, these were made as mass produced duty revolvers. The Mark III had sintered steel internal parts and the firing pin is reported to be prone to breaking with extensive dry firing. Honestly, I think the Mark V is better and in the condition described, might fetch $800, but for a worn and somewhat neglected Mark III? I'd say no, unless the barrel is rollmarked Trooper Mk III, but has the Mark V style ventilated rib. Colt introduced the ventilated rib barrel on the last run of Mk III revolvers and there are few out there.
 
Good reason you don't see Mark IIIs
or other such Colts on the market.
When they were stock new, nobody
wanted them. Now, of course, ooohh,
a Colt.;)

The OP's Security Six is by far the better
gun and very desirable in the used gun
market.

If the itch is strong for a Colt, then
consider the new King Cobra with
3-inch barrel or the new King Cobra
Target with 4-inch barrel. Around the
same money as that Mark IIi the OP
is asking about.
 
Last edited:
Nothing is staying the same or getting cheaper….it may be more than you want to pay but that is simply the market conditions. One might show up cheaper but who knows when and where. So buy it or wait and see if a 500 dollar gun comes around…..never going to happen.

Agreed. Most of the guys who say a gun isn't worth the asking price in threads like this are guys who in the end either don't buy much.

A few may have have strong social / business networks that allow them to get really good deals, but the are also usually buying for profit.

A few are the type that buy cheap off unknowing widows, etc.

That latter practice is unethical and when I see people bragging about such deals, I make a note to never deal with them.
 
Last summer I bought a near mint "late" model MKIII 6" with the ventilated rib. These tend to bring a little more money. I would call it unique more than rare. I'm not a Colt guy. But this gun was to pretty to not bye. Original grips looked new. We haggled a bit and I got it out the door for $750. Before tax ( .0875%) that's under $700.
 
I never wanted to own one of them. I did own once once, a long time ago. I opened it up and looked at the action. "Cheezy" would not begin to describe what I saw. Mine went down the road ASAP and I have never had any desire to own another.

To someone used to looking at Smith actions, and Python actions, that thing looks like the action was designed in a 1960's Japanese toy factory. They look like something big and wonderful on the outside. If you never open one up, you will probably continue to think so.
 
Last edited:
I like where TheHobbyist" is going. The grips wouldn't bother me as much as the "red crusty rust".

Red rust means active rust. Active rust is likely removing metal, so when you clean that spot up you could have some pitting under it. That's a real bummer and hit in value.

You didn't mention whether or not the gun was in time. If you tested it and each chamber is in time, that's perfect. If one or more are out of time, that would be a deal breaker for me. Getting parts for an old Trooper will be an adventure.
 
I never wanted to own one of them. I did own once once, a long time ago. I opened it up and looked at the action. "Cheezy" would not begin to describe what I saw. Mine went down the road ASAP and I have never had any desire to own another.

To someone used to looking at Smith actions, and Python actions, that thing looks like the action was designed in a 1960's Japanese to factory. They look like something big and wonderful on the outside. If you never open one up, you will probably continue to think so.


The Mk III lockwork is absolutely solid. The new Pythons and King Cobras use a variation of it.
 
The Mk III lockwork is absolutely solid. The new Pythons and King Cobras use a variation of it.

You have been inside these guns?

My experience is that the 2020 Python
retains a lockwork similar to the older
Pythons but with modifications for the
cylinder bolt as an example. The
flat "V" or rather now the "U" spring
still powers the gun. I believe the
new King Cobras also use a similar flat
spring. The new Cobras are nothing
like the original models.
 
I was at a gun show haggling over an S&W revolver with a familiar vendor. I said it is not worth that much to me, and he said, sure you own a dozen revolvers that you like, the next guy will own no revolvers, only know that he wants one with only a sketchy idea of the value, this will sell at my price today. It did.
 
That's actually not a bad price for that gun.Personally I wouldn't go over $600 only because I'm not a fan of Colt.The last two Smith & Wesson .357's I bought cost a grand a piece. Would have loved to pay only $800. a piece.
 
The Mk III lockwork is absolutely solid. The new Pythons and King Cobras use a variation of it.

I don't want to burst your bubble or get into a whizzing contest. But, we do need to correct the record.

The first pic is the lock work of the Trooper MKlll. The second one is the new Python. Other than they both have a hammer and a trigger, there is almost no similarity. The new Python is not a variation, or even inspired by the Trooper's action. The inspiration behind the new Python action was a simplification of the action of the old Python.

The Trooper's action was filled with parts made of "sintered metal", an early form of MIM, which means that MIM was an improvement of this process. It had some really cheesy looking springs, the cheesiest being the bent piece of thin metal that pushes on the hand. It is shoved in a slot chopped out for it in the transfer bar on the Trooper. I have seen stuff like this in early Japanese wind-up toys. Colt dumped the sintered metal and upgraded it with cast parts in the Mk V.

This is my opinion based on the above facts. I don't wish to call anyone who disagrees with me wrong. I just wished to be more clear about why I have said what I have said about this guns lock work. To me, it is junk. You may feel differently. So be it.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0969.jpg
    IMG_0969.jpg
    79.5 KB · Views: 71
  • 2020ColtPython_01partscomplete-900.jpg
    2020ColtPython_01partscomplete-900.jpg
    191.1 KB · Views: 66
Last edited:
Looking at completed auctions, I'd say that one is at least $100-$200 too high. I see some slightly worn ones selling for $700. The prices are highly variable.

What's it worth to you? I've shot some of those and the original grips are pretty horrible for actual use. But you could use that as a bargaining point.
 
Back
Top