School me on variable power scopes vs red dot sights

[LAA]

Magnifiers can easily be removed, if you're going to be lugging this rifle through dense forest or jungles.

 

[buckyjames1]

My set up was the EOTECH with EOTECH magnifier, Just too bulky and although the side flip of the magnifier was nice, it just was clumsy feeling to me. YMMV

1. Trijicon AccuPoint TR24 Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 1-4x 24mm is 14.4oz.

2. EOTech EXPS2-2 Holographic Hybrid Sight II 68 MOA Circle (2) 1 MOA is 22.4oz without battery.

3. Trijicon ACOG TA31 BAC Rifle Scope 4x 32mm Dual-Illuminated Horseshoe 9.9oz no batteries, very bright with the tritium and a nice fiber optic to boot.

 

[LAA]

A lot of these options are a lot of money, to put on a M&P Sport 2. IMO, for 100 yrd shooting (or less)------ not worth it. We can go crazy with scopes, spotting scopes, red dots, etc. money wise.

Vortex Sparc AR $200.00
Magnifier 200.00

 

[rock_castle]

I began with a red dot on my AR, but after a while I wanted to be able to reach out and touch someone and be able to identify targets at a distance. I ended up with a Strike Eagle which can identify close in targets quickly, yet provide long range accuracy too.
I keep my scope set at 1 (no magnification) when the rifle is in my bedroom closet for home defense. The only negative compared to my red dot is the extra weight. I'm glad I made the change.

 

[WR Moore]

You are way to narrow minded. Especially when it comes to competition and what someone needs.
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I never said that you can't build basic skills in competition. I've shot-and very occasionally still try to- competition in several varieties. That said, there's a basic truth that one cannot widget oneself to competency/excellence.

Back in the 1980's I built competition 1911s for people who shot IPSC. Beyond the basics, most of the folks would have better spent their money on practice ammo and/or instruction. And I'm not exaggerating about what lengths some folks will do for a competitive advantage. Kudos to you for not going to those lengths.

Yes, you CAN shoot beyond 200-250 yards with a .223. However, you didn't note my comment about wind drift, which is about 4 times as much as with as a .30 round. One can find bullets that closely approximate a good 7.62 match bullet, but that's not what most of us are shooting. And, as Phil noted, the effective range of a .223/5.56 mm is about what I noted. Some competent experts put it much less for defensive use. In fact, one of the driving forces behind military adoption of the 5.56 mm was a series of studies that noted that ~87% of combat casualties were from crew served weapons and that the limit of effective rifle fire by the average infantry person was about 300 yards, perhaps less, in the real world.

I addressed the questions/concerns put by the OP and didn't get into all possible options and I didn't exclude variable scopes. i also spent over 20 years with an AR platform within arms reach if it wasn't hanging on me, this colors my commentary.

Good luck.

 

[C J]

And, as Phil noted, the effective range of a .223/5.56 mm is about what I noted. Some competent experts put it much less for defensive use.

I guess this would depend on the definition of effective. SD distances are not the same as varmint distances. I probably wouldn't shoot anything alive at 500 yards with a .223 but 400 yards I'd definitely take a shot at a coyote. Again the place I shoot 500 yards has some serious wind and I manage to get rounds on target. I use heavy bullets (75gr) to combat the wind and I spend some time learning how to read the wind. And I'm not using an AR. That's a big reason I can shoot accurate at that distance. I've shot AR's at that distance and they just won't do what a 26" barrel, bolt action rifle designed for long range shooting will do (LRPV = Long Range Precision Varmint). As far as the effective range on the battlefield goes that's beyond my knowledge. My experience is in target shooting and varmint shooting. But just so you know at 300 yards I can shoot very close to 1" groups pretty much all the time and that's with the wind blowing straight in on me which I find to be the hardest type of wind to shoot in.

I do have this target I shot with my LRPV. This is pretty typical for that rifle. It was shot at 125 yards. It was the last 4 shots I took when I was checking the zero on the rifle. Once I got it dialed in (I hadn't shot it for over a year) this is what it did. I really don't have any place to shoot long range anymore since they closed the 500 yard range at the gun club. A friend says he has a spot to shoot 600 yards but right now I live about 120 miles away from him so I haven't made it there yet.

I also looked up some videos on rifles very similar to mine. The first one has a 30" barrel and a different stock (not a better stock) but most of the shooters I've talked to prefer the 26" barrel because it balances better. Anyway the first video shows a .223 shooting 1000 yards.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H-l5fq8oxs[/ame]

This video shows the same rifle as mine shooting 450 yards. This is typical for how my rifle shoots.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bjDEc51Qmw&spfreload=5[/ame]

Again the same rifle as mine this time at 500 yards. First shot was high. My guess is they did some Kentucky windage adjustments for the second shot.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5GZViXTk3I&spfreload=5[/ame]

One more. A very similar Savage .223 at 1000 meters.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Fd5rMi3l4&spfreload=5[/ame]

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

There are the purists out there, who think magnifiers belong in the junk box. Some are very vocal about that. As to myself, I don't get a kick out of shooting ARs for long distances.

Not that they necessarily belong in the AR parts box, but it's been my observation that's where magnifiers often end up.

The advantages of a 1x red dot is unlimited field of view and eye relief. With the magnifier in place that's gone. With the magnifier flipped to the side there's all this stuff in the operator's face.

Of course there are folks who find magnifiers useful but I think most folks find a conventional magnified scope or 1x red dot is a better fit than the compromises offered by the red dot/magnifier combo. And that's what I would suggest to someone like the OP curious about which optic to choose. As always, YMMV.

 

[TX-Dennis]

I couldn't decide, so I got both. I have a Nikon P223 3-9 scope on one AR and a Vortex SPARC AR dot on the other. Both are useful. The scope for distances over 100 yards, and the dot for up to 100 yards. The scope is on a Del-Ton. I shoot it at up to 500 meters occasionally, but mostly at 125-200 meters. The dot is on a Sport 2. Both are fun to shoot. Neither is a "precision" rifle.

 

[C J]

I couldn't decide, so I got both. I have a Nikon P223 3-9 scope on one AR and a Vortex SPARC AR dot on the other. Both are useful.

No doubt both are useful. Both are good quality setups. I've always wished there was a truly good way to have a red dot and a scope on the same rifle. The two you picked are good choices for a combined setup. Maybe I'm biased because I have 2 Nikon ProStaff 3-9X40 scopes I'm using. Mine are earlier models than the P223. I really like those scopes. They are very clear and gather light really well for their price. They aren't Night Force or anything but they do pretty well. I have a Vortex Strikefire II on my AR and I've been very happy with it. I have been tempted to put a Primary Arms Advanced red dot on it because of battery life. I have that sight on a Kel-Tec KSG shotgun but I'm thinking of selling that gun. It's a great weapon but I don't really expect to be in a trench war any time soon. It's a genuine example of overkill IMO. It's fun to have but not really practical. I can't carry it in the truck loaded in my state or that might be a different story.

But your post is correct. Scopes and red dots both have their uses. If I had everything I wanted on one firearm it would likely weigh 40 lb.s though.

 

[Disabled1]

Here's a red dot to stay away from.

Unsuitable at Any Range: A Holosun Review - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog

 

[PALADIN85020]

I think it all depends to what use you intend for your rifle. If it's target or varmint shooting, by all means, you want precision crosshair magnifying optics (a scope).

If on the other hand, you want a SHTF protection rifle, the red dot reigns supreme. Normally, ranges will not surpass 200 yards, and could be very close indeed. You will want FAST target acquisition with plenty of peripheral vision. Additional advantages include unlimited eye relief and no worries about parallax errors. Co-witnessed with your iron sights, you can take it off and still be on target. I've equipped my "go to" AR with an Aimpoint with a 4-minute dot and a flip-up backup iron rear sight. Very happy with this arrangement. I have other rifles for precision shots at longer ranges, and of course they are appropriately scoped.

John