sd9ve lifetime

[noro]

Hi All,

Recently I picked up a new sd9ve and have no problems with it.
Started watching you tube videos on it. One video I've seen, shows the installation of parts by an aftermarket vendor to improve the trigger function.

Now, in the video, the tech mentions that the sd9ve only has a lifetime of 4000 rounds. I find this very hard to believe. Now,
if you shoot a 100 rounds a week, your sd9ve will be shot in a year. I certainly feel that the pistol will go way beyond this 4000 limit.

What do you guys think with high round counts?

 

[MRSpivey]

I can’t speak to that since I don’t shoot mine that much. My two biggest concerns with it is 1) how well will the polymer frame hold up (not crack or deform) and 2) how well the light profile barrel hold up. I really don’t worry about it though. There isn’t a round counter so a lifetime warranty is a lifetime warranty... it’s good as long as S&W is still in business.

 

[Borderboss]

It doesn't pass the smell test for me. No company in their right mind would market a gun that had that kind of known limitation. Why damage your reputation with a gun that has a known weakness like that?

 

[bub075]

It doesn't pass the smell test for me. No company in their right mind would market a gun that had that kind of known limitation. Why damage your reputation with a gun that has a known weakness like that?

But yet, S&W did just that back in the '90's. The gun was the .380 Sigma. Slide was made of a zinc casting with the sights cast in place, similar to the the way Ruger machines the slide for the LCP. The slide was finished with some sort of black paint that chipped off very easily. Stated lifespan from S&W was 5000-6000 rds.

The gun had other issues, as well, like the mag release. The sides of the plastic floor plate came up, forming catches that latched into the sides of the grip. The latches were powered by "springs" stamped into the mag body and bent out behind the catches. Releasing the mag consisted of grabbing both sides of the bottom of the grip where the catches were and pressing in, then pulling the mag out. In my experience, the mag catches worked OK but not great. When new, the mags locked in well but were hard to release. As they were used, the "springs" quickly got weak and the mags were hard to latch in place, but were easy to release. Fast mag changes were NOT gonna happen with that gun. The sights also sucked hard. The rear notch was small and narrow, making it hard to get any type of decent sight picture. The trigger was also typical Sigma of the time- hard, gritty and difficult to pull well. I suppose S&W figured that no one would want to practice a lot with their carry gun.

I had one, back in the day, since small, light, compact .380s simply didn't exist at the time. .380s at the time consisted of guns like the Walther PP and PPK, Beretta models 84 and 87 (I think, if I have the model numbers right) and the Sig P230, guns that were the same size, or larger, than 9mm guns we have available today. The .380 Sigma always ran well, but I'll readily admit that I never shot it a lot. I just couldn't get over the fact that it was so hard to shoot, between the sights and the trigger, the awkward magazine release, the fact that the gun had a factory stated lifespan and how ugly it got very fast with the paint chipping off the slide and the zinc turning an ugly, dull silvery gray color. I kinda wish I had kept it for the curiosity value, but I traded it on something else and it was one of the few guns I couldn't have cared less that I sold or traded it away.

Sorry for the thread drift, just had to chime in when Borderboss said something about guns with designed lifespans.

 

[3hounds]

What video said that ?

3

 

[BlueArch91]

Back to the SD9VE. It has a stainless barrel and slide and there is nothing to suggest that the polymer frame is significantly inferior to their M&P product line. Both are backed by the same lifetime warranty. I would suggest that it is not an equal to the M&P but well durable enough for the majority of civilian use.


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[diyj98]

I saw a used Sigma in a pawn shop a few months ago with a cracked frame. When I pointed it out to the shop manager, he said "that's why it's priced the way it is". I was a little shocked from a liability standpoint that they'd sell a gun with a cracked frame.

 

[Borderboss]

But yet, S&W did just that back in the '90's. The gun was the .380 Sigma. Slide was made of a zinc casting with the sights cast in place, similar to the the way Ruger machines the slide for the LCP. The slide was finished with some sort of black paint that chipped off very easily. Stated lifespan from S&W was 5000-6000 rds.

That's great, but where is the same statement from S&W about the SD9VE? If there isn't one, then it's just the video guy spouting about something he knows nothing about.

 

[spad124]

Even if the polymer “frame” cracks, the receiver that the slide rides on and the fire control group (trigger and striker) is a part of are steel. That steel piece is the actual frame. The polymer piece is really more of a handle. Seems that you could replace the cracked polymer piece.

And I like my SD9VE. I have “better” pistols, but the SD works just fine.

 

[noro]

I really don't see any negatives about the S&W SD9VE. Some
guys don't care for the plastic sights or recoil spring assembly.
but I"ve never had a problem with it. I also have the M&P 1.0
and 2.0 models and, to be honest, I really don't see a massive difference in quality. For the money, I would say its a great
value.

It just struck me as odd, that a major aftermarket vendor would state that the lifetime of the pistol is only 4000 rounds. You can shoot that much in a year. So why even buy the aftermarket parts?

I'd rather not say who the vendor was in order to not badmouth them, since I have no experience in their products, but will say
its a major aftermarket seller for trigger improvements and not Apex.

 

[msjdgman]

Every once and awhile this subject of longevity comes up concerning the SD9VE. It’s bologna thats been debunked time and time again. There have been members on this forum I believe that have thousands upon thousands of rounds thru their gun that have never had an issue.

 

[noro]

I was just amazed and stunned that a major aftermarket vendor would come out with a statement like that. I feel that the SD9VE is an excellent pistol manufactured for a specific price point. I certainly think the pistol is very viable for its purpose.

The only problem I have with it is that the trigger is somewhat heavy, but once you get used to it, the pistol is very accurate should you do your part.

Anyone on the forum have one with more than 4000 rounds thru it? If you do, did you have any problems with the pistol in getting to that point? like broken parts, return for warranty service, etc?

 

[bub075]

That's great, but where is the same statement from S&W about the SD9VE? If there isn't one, then it's just the video guy spouting about something he knows nothing about.

There wasn't. What I was responding to was you saying that a manufacturer putting a lifespan on a pistol was lunacy.

 

[Frankenbiker]

I got my SD9VE at the beginning of last year, and can easily say I've fired 7-8k worth of rounds through it, although I haven't counted. I haven't had any issues with it, accuracy is still good, trigger still good, everything, still good. So shoot to your hearts content.

 

[noro]

Great to know, Thanks!

 

[familyman357oh]

I saw that video. He mentions "rebuilding it from the ground up" at around 4,000 rounds and that it often includes replacing the frame.

Later, in the comments section he expands upon that with "Like any other mechanical object, parts wear out and need to be replaced. This pistol has a service life of around 4,000 rounds, meaning that after 4,000 you need to start replacing springs, guide rods, the barrel, striker. But hey what do I know I just do this for a living."

Here are his certifications:

Springfield XD/XDm Armorer
FNS Pistol Armorer
Glock Armorer
Sig Sauer P320 Armorer
Sig Sauer P226 Armorer
Sig Sauer MPX Armorer

He isn't even a Smith & Wesson armorer.

I can see replacing the recoil spring assembly around 4,000 rounds just as a matter of preventative maintenance. Recoil springs are consumable items.

The rest? I'm not so sure. The SD lineup has been around since 2011 and its Sigma ancestors go back to 1994 and I haven't seen anything that suggests that these pistols are any more prone to breakage than any other polymer pistols. As far was "what do I know I just do this for a living", from what I can determine his company doesn't do any warranty work; all they do is sell and install aftermarket parts.

I'm inclined to chalk this up as gun shop commando talk.

 

[BlueArch91]

So who is this guy? Replace the frame? This is kind of hyperbole is just meant to unsettle sD owners.


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[caleb90]

a few years back i was looking for a econo/beater9mm. i was undecided between the sd9 and 9e ruger till i held them in person. i went with the 9e ruger as the polymer seemed better the slide seemed more robust and just over all a better built gun. the sd series seemed sub par to the m&p imo. not saying that its a bad gun. now with that being said i feel the sd9 had a better value over the 9e, two mags stainless slide. plus now ruger has discontinude the 9e so future parts may be an issue where as the sd is still in production.. when it comes to eco minded pistols pick what fits your hand and shoot them if your happy thats all that matters. smith has a good warrenty and dont worry about it.. my 2 cents

 

[Rustyt1953]

Just a voice from the cheap seats.

I have had an SD9VE for almost six years. It has well over the mystical 4K rounds through it and I have had no issues. It, like my other pistols, are stock with only factory mags.

The frame looks good and the barrel still puts 'em where I wants 'em.

To me, it has earned the moniker of "damned fine pistol".

Just relax and enjoy it.

 

[Well Armed]

Um, why no link to the mysterious video in question?

 

[noro]

Wellarmed,

Didn't want to go off half cocked on a vendor that I know nothing about. I don't have any experience with the vendor or their products. Why go off on a major aftermarket S&W vendor
because one of their techs spouted nonsense in a video?

From what I understand, These people have a large business
supplying aftermarket parts for S&W pistols to improve trigger
function. Now, their products might be great, good or fair but
they are highly regarded with S&W polymer enthusiasts, so why
cause a problem for them, if I don't know what I'm talking about?

JMHO. the SD9VE is a great pistol - period. It's value enhanced
(plastic parts, stiff trigger) for a reason. It's made to provide a
entry level polymer pistol at the lowest possible price by a
great maker who stands behind it.

Its certainly not a 2.0 or even a 1.0, but works well for its
intended purpose - SD. A lot of guys love them and they
seem to hold up well in the few cases that forum owners have responded with high round counts.


A so-called internet expert claimed these pistols have a 4000
round life which I just couldn"t believe. In that case, why buy his aftermarket parts if your pistol will be shot out within a year of average shooting? Shoot a 100 rounds a week, and your new
SD9VE is junk. (5200 rounds) so he claimed. I only wanted to see if any problems existed with SD9VE's beyond 5000+ rounds. All I can say is to go to youtube and check out the SD9VE videos. You'll find it within the top ten. I certainly don't want
to get into in to a war with a vendor that I haven't done business with. I think (JMHO) his tech is full of it. What makes it bad is that he represents a major aftermarket S&W parts supplier.

 

[mrchuck]

I still have my SW40c. That is he model that S&W copied a Glock 100% and S&W just about went out of business as Glock sued them and won.
Still a great pistol to shoot and travel with as a car gun.

 

[BlueArch91]

So someone from Apex or Galloway said it. There is no war. It probably was a poorly worded off hand comment. Still I and others were made curious by your post and just wanted to watch it without having to go on a quest.


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[Echo40]

I don't own a Sigma series pistol, but the SD40VE is currently under consideration as my next Winter Carry gun, so I've been doing research on it and as near as I can figure, reports of parts breaking are the exception to the rule which only appear deceptively common because few folks actually bother to run their SD/VE pistols that hard, ergo the cases in which someone happened to put a lot of rounds through their pistol then experienced some sort of breakage/mechanical failure tend to stand out more.
Furthermore, it's unfortunate, but folks are always more likely to comment when something goes wrong than give praise when everything goes smoothly, so there are likely many folks out there with thousands of trouble-free rounds through their SD/VE who take it for granted.

Sadly, there are a lot of low-priced pistols out their which have undeserved reputations for being of poor quality for that very reason, because folks place way too much faith in the old adage; "You get what you paid for." and thus consider anything inexpensive to be of inherently poor quality, which just isn't true. In fact, advances in modern technology have rendered the saying increasingly obsolete over the past few decades, as the production costs of firearms manufacturing have decreased substantially on the lower end of the spectrum, but folks fail to recognize this due to the declining state of the economy and subsequent inflation.
The result is that a whole lot of value-priced firearms (with the emphasis on value) are often overlooked or underappreciated, and it most certainly doesn't help matters that there are still a lot of ignorant people out there who honestly continue to cling to the belief that polymer, MIM, and even aluminum alloys simply cannot hold up to a lifetime of use despite all evidence to the contrary, ergo they jump at the chance to point out any instance of a polymer/alloy-framed firearm has a part break on it in order to support their erroneous assertions.

At the end of the day, only two things really need to be considered;
a.) There simply is not enough data to adequately confirm or debunk the probably of breakage on SD/VE pistols because those who actually put tens of thousands of rounds through them are apparently in the minority.
b.) The SD/VE is covered under S&W Lifetime Warranty, ergo even if it does break, they'll either repair or replace it for you, so unless you intend to put thousands of magazines worth of ammo through your SD/VE then continue carrying it without periodically replacing parts or otherwise examining them for signs of wear, then you have very little to worry about.

As previously stated, the SD40VE is currently in the running alongside other value-priced pistols including the even cheaper, less robust Ruger EC9s for my next Winter Carry pistol, and I honestly see no compelling evidence to suggest that either should fail after thousands of rounds, much less the more realistic amount of shooting the average person would do with a value-priced carry pistol to determine reliability/PoI.

 

[BlueArch91]

Love my SD9VE. That being said we are seeing 4” M&P 2.0 Compacts on line for $349. If you are getting your SD on sale for $269 then I might see value. Anything over $300 get the M&P. Once I added my Talon grip and Apex Trigger I am right around the sale price 2.0.


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[noro]

Blue Arch,

These are my thoughts also. The SD/VE is a great weapon at a
price point. Its not a M&P 2.0 or a 1.0. If you want it to perform
at that level, you have to modify it (more than likely with Apex)

If you take it for what it is in stock form, and get used to the stock
factory trigger, its more than adequate for self-defense. Should you start to modify it, the mods will take it into 2.0 territory as
you pointed out costwise.

My personal opinion (and that's all it is) is that if the S&W triggers are so bad, why didn't the factory fix it, instead of letting aftermarket sellers get involved? Sure, Apex and Galloway will improve the triggers but at what cost to you?

Mine is approaching 2500 rounds with no problems at all.
Want to see what happens at the "magical" 4000 rounds
that Galloway claims major failures will occur. Have to point out
that I also have the M&P 2.0 and 1.0 so no stranger to the modern
S&W auto lineup.

 

[Steve912]

Want to see what happens at the "magical" 4000 rounds
that Galloway claims major failures will occur. Have to point out
that I also have the M&P 2.0 and 1.0 so no stranger to the modern
S&W auto lineup.

Wait--the gallstones who cranked out the "upgrade" recoil
spring assembly (that was so poorly designed, that it
broke parts of the SD frame) are the bozos saying the
pistol has a 4K round-life?

Maybe they mean "pistol may last up to four thousand rounds,
when using our replacement parts."

 

[BlueArch91]

Finally saw the video. Galloway Precision Spring Kit Installation if anyone cares to watch. The 4000 round comment comes at the end of the video if anyone cares to watch.

It is interesting that in the comments a viewer gets very defensive which puts the guy in the video on the defense, “what do I know I only do this for a living.” He claims that the information comes from S&W. Interesting it does seem to relate to the issues that the pistol was having with the Galloway guide rod.

I know mechanical things need maintenance and do break. I also know if this pistol had a 4000 round service life and a lifetime warranty S&W could expect to rebuild quite a few pistols.

I am not terribly concerned given their reputation for honoring their warranty. I would have thought if they really had stated a service life on this firearm it would be common knowledge. Let’s face it that is a frequent topic in these forums and videos especially when comparing to more expensive duty pistols.

I might just drop their customer service a line and see what they have to say so I can figure out when I need to send mine in for a complete rebuild.


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[MRSpivey]

Finally saw the video. Galloway Precision Spring Kit Installation if anyone cares to watch. The 4000 round comment comes at the end of the video if anyone cares to watch.

It is interesting that in the comments a viewer gets very defensive which puts the guy in the video on the defense, “what do I know I only do this for a living.” He claims that the information comes from S&W. Interesting it does seem to relate to the issues that the pistol was having with the Galloway guide rod.

I know mechanical things need maintenance and do break. I also know if this pistol had a 4000 round service life and a lifetime warranty S&W could expect to rebuild quite a few pistols.

I am not terribly concerned given their reputation for honoring their warranty. I would have thought if they really had stated a service life on this firearm it would be common knowledge. Let’s face it that is a frequent topic in these forums and videos especially when comparing to more expensive duty pistols.

I might just drop their customer service a line and see what they have to say so I can figure out when I need to send mine in for a complete rebuild.


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I would be interested in what S&W customer service has to say! Please let us know.

 

[BlueArch91]

I would be interested in what S&W customer service has to say! Please let us know.

I will! The question has been asked. If it is 4000, my next question is what is the M&P?

More than anything else, what bothers me about the Galloway statement is that since this is a self defense pistol it is not meant to be shot much. That flies in the face of training. Also, “It’s not a range gun,” that flies in the face of V for value.




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