Second Model Schofield U.S. Army Original Nickel Plating?

[opoefc]

cotton42, value is a very subjective thing, of course. I think a serious Schofield collector will probably consider the after market change of finish to nickel from the original blue as reducing the gun's value by around 50% from what it would be in a 98%+ original blue state. Original blued US Schofields in the high 90% conditions can bring around $20,000 in any good auction today. Ed.

 

[Masterpiece]

It left S&W in April 1877 as a blued gun, so, that's that.

Hi Jay,

I had my fingers crossed for you, but I see it didn't do much good as it came back as most of us suspected!!

I also noticed you didn't post a photo in your gallery with the contents of the Research Section of the Letter!! Did it come back showing it being shipped to the United States Armory or the US Government at Springfield?? Reason I ask is, if I remember correctly, I believe I sent you Two Letters of mine showing both of the ways he's known to write them up & what you could expect as far as the content!! Just wondering how close they came to including the same info as I haven't had one Lettered for many, many years to see how much they've changed!! Also, did it have the day as well as the year it was shipped or was it just listed as shipped in April 1877?? Not important...Just curious as even my Early Letters had the day & year!!

Well even having been Refinished, if you could call it that, it's still the Highest Condition Schofield I've seen in some time & I'm sure there would be very few that wouldn't be honored to include in their collection!! I'm jealous....Ha!~Ha!

By the way, that's some excellent photographic work in your Photo Gallery!! Very, Very Nice Photos!!

 

[cotton42]

Hi Jay,


I also noticed you didn't post a photo in your gallery with the contents of the Research Section of the Letter!!

By the way, that's some excellent photographic work in your Photo Gallery!! Very, Very Nice Photos!!

Masterpiece,

Here is the letter from Roy. BTW thanks for the compliment...but I was only lucky enough to have a macro lens for my SLR.

 

[Masterpiece]

Hi Jay,

Thanks for posting the Letter!! Wow...yours got the Deluxe Treatment...Full Shipping Date, Barrel Length, Finish & the Style of Grips...You must be special...Ha!~Ha! I also see he states yours shipped to the National Armory in Springfield!! That's a new one for me!! I guess now I have another Address to add to my list along with the others!! By the way, no matter how he writes up the Armory Addresses, they are all the same shipping destination just in case you're wondering!!

 

[BUFF]

Mr. Jinks wrote, or dictated, or had typed, or mailed, on December 9, 1996, the letter on my First Model Schofield, #585, as having "been shipped from our factory on July 12, 1875, and delivered to the United States Armory at Springfield, MA. This revolver was shipped with a 7 inch barrel and blue finish."

So, Ed, the lettered date may not mean when shipped or arrived, but maybe when billed or when paid for?

Cotton42's Schofield is the nicest one I have seen, pictured or in person. It's lovely.

 

[Masterpiece]

The lettered date may not mean when shipped or arrived, but maybe when billed or when paid for?

BUFF,

I believe if you were to ask Roy, he'd assure you that the Jul.12,1875 date is "Most Likely" the actual date it was shipped & delivered to the Armory at Springfield as the original order for the 3000 U.S. Gov't Contract First Models was placed on Sept.18,1874!!

Now as far as the date when they were billed out and/or paid for, I've never heard or come across any info pertaining to this when doing research work on any of mine!! Personally, I think it's questionable if there's any known info when this may have been!! Possibly Charlie Pate or Forum Member (opoefc) may be able to shed some light on this issue, but I've certainly never run across any!!

By the way, unless some new information has come to light that I'm not aware of, this complete order of 3000 Revolvers, with the exception of a very few that are rumored to exist & sold for Commercial use, were all delivered in one shipment!! Just thought his may be of interest to you!!

 

[opoefc]

Buff, Masterpiece, etc. Roy, Charlie Pate, myself & others have corresponded and discussed in person the US Schofield records at S&W for some years now. Roy has always told me that he uses the date that S&W billed the Gov't for the shipments, for ship dates, as the shipping records at S&W do not reveal any dates for Gov't shipments. The records at the Springfield Armory & the National Archives, however, do indicate that shipments came a different increments over the length of the contract, as guns were inspected, passed, and crated for shipment. Arriving crates at Spingfield Armory were again inspected as to matching the contents with the serial number & quantity of guns listed in each crate per the invoice. In one known situation, a crate was missing several guns that were listed on the invoice. Those missing serial numbers are known to the Gov't , so if you are not sure if any of your Schofields may be on that "Missing" list, just sent them to me and I will check! Ed.

 

[Masterpiece]

Roy has always told me that he uses the date that S&W billed the Gov't for the shipments, for ship dates, as the shipping records at S&W do not reveal any dates for Gov't shipments.

Ed,

Well that's a shocker...talk about new information coming to light!! Boy, have I ever been under the wrong impression for many, many years!! That would certainly explain the reason why all the Letters I've requested had July 12th,1875 listed as the Shipment Date, but in the same breath, I'm very surprised that Roy had never made mention of this fact in the past!! Although I do have a very early letter request for a First Model that states it was "Sold" to the U.S. Government on July 5th,1875 & never had a second thought about it until a short time later when I requested a few more letters & they all came back as "Shipped" July 12th,1875!! So in turn, after receiving those letters, I questioned the date of the earlier request & a short time later received an amended letter with the July 12th Shipping Date....Hmmm!! Or by chance is this information something that has come to light in the near past?? Actually I suppose I should have worded that as in the last 20+yrs or so!!

The records at the Springfield Armory & the National Archives, however, do indicate that shipments came a different increments over the length of the contract, as guns were inspected, passed, and crated for shipment.

Now the second part,

I'm assuming that the information you posted about delivering them in different increments over the length of the contract also applies to the First Schofield Contract or was your statement intended as a general overview of how all Gov't Contract S&W's were shipped no matter what contract they shipped in?? Also, that scenario definitely makes more sense than shipping them all at once given they didn't have far to go!! Although, for the time being, I'm mainly wondering about the First Schofield Contract!! Also, do you know if there is a fairly complete list now regarding the arrival/delivery dates of these Schofields than there has been in the past 20-30 yrs or so?? Just curious!!

By the way, thanks again so much for this new information & now I'll go make my apologizes to BUFF!!

 

[BUFF]

That's great information, Ed. Thanks.

 

[Masterpiece]

Oops!!!

So, the lettered date may not mean when shipped or arrived, but maybe when billed or when paid for?

BUFF,

Well, it sure looks as though your "Guess" was much better than what I've always believed to be fact as I'm sure by now you've read Ed's post about the "Real Story" about the Schofield Shipping Dates, Etc.!! By the way, good call!! Given that, I'd like now to pass along my sincerest apology for posting info that for many yrs I've thought to be fact when now it seems there are more than a few holes in that info!! I assure you it was not my intent to mislead you in any way, but I've long believed this info to be correct as stated!! I'll tell you one thing for sure, it makes me want to crawl under a rock because I make every attempt to not intentionally pass misinformation along to anyone!! Sorry about that!! I believe the main reason I've been under this impression revolves around the fact that most all of mine were acquired in the Eighties, or shortly after, & it looks like much more info has come to light since then that I've missed out on as the years went by!! Again, I apologize for this mistaken info!!

 

[Masterpiece]

Hi BUFF,

Well, either I type really slow or was in the middle of things when you made your latest Post, but I see you read Ed's Post & hopefully you accept my apology!!

 

[BUFF]

None needed.

 

[ouchez]

I have two Schofields, 1st and 2nd. I love these guns. They now sit in a bank vault. My prayer is that one day the "Springfield Research" will one day be able to locate the unit they were shipped too. It appears my 1st model may have seen extensive field service, being a very low serial number and due to it's condition, however it is 100% correct, as is the other. I would rate the 1st as very good and the 2nd as a strong fine. I also had a nickled one that was done after it's use and it to was a gorgeous gun, but sold that as to it's not being original.

Ouchez