aterry33
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Can anyone provide a history of the secret service issue revolvers? All I have heard is that agents were issued 2.5" model 19s at one point and uniformed officers were issued 4" model 19s. They now carry SIGP229s in 357 SIG.
Secret Service Revolvers
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aterry33
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Can anyone provide a history of the secret service issue revolvers? All I have heard is that agents were issued 2.5" model 19s at one point and uniformed officers were issued 4" model 19s. They now carry SIGP229s in 357 SIG.
Hoplophile
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I was a Marine assigned to VP Humphrey's SS detail for an African trip in 1968.
At that time, the VP detail was required to carry 4" K-frames (I think M15, but I can't guarantee that). I was told the presidential detail carried 4" M19s (the 2.5" had just come out in mid-1967 and was not in service at the time).
Other agents had more leeway in choice of firearms. The agent assigned to supervise us (two Marines), was temporarily assigned from one of the field offices, and carried a M39. With ball ammo! (Recall there was very little high performance ammo available back then, especially for automatics. I had some Norma 230 JHP for my personal 1911 that I had picked up on a trip to Germany, but that was the exception. And it wouldn't feed in my non-throated commercial Govt Model.)
He was a gunnie, and we spent several hours talking guns when sitting in the CP just down the hall from the VP's hotel room. At the time we (the Marines) were issued S&W Victory Models, but I carried a commercial M10 4" pencil barrel round butt (still my favorite revolver). The only ammo we had available was M41 ball (issue -- the least effective .38 load available at the time!) or 158 gr LRN, like most cops carried at the time.
Lee Jurras was just getting Super Vel started up at that time, and one of the German or Austrians (Hirtenberg?) made a SP 9mm load.
In 1974 I was invited to visit the SS range in Greenbelt, MD (the SS range AIC was a former Marine pilot; I had done a gun trade with him at the Greenbelt gun show). The revolvers the agents there were carrying were 2.5" 19s and maybe some 2.5" 66s (the brain cells die so quickly!).
(If you read this, Hi, Robbie. And thanks again.)
At that time, the VP detail was required to carry 4" K-frames (I think M15, but I can't guarantee that). I was told the presidential detail carried 4" M19s (the 2.5" had just come out in mid-1967 and was not in service at the time).
Other agents had more leeway in choice of firearms. The agent assigned to supervise us (two Marines), was temporarily assigned from one of the field offices, and carried a M39. With ball ammo! (Recall there was very little high performance ammo available back then, especially for automatics. I had some Norma 230 JHP for my personal 1911 that I had picked up on a trip to Germany, but that was the exception. And it wouldn't feed in my non-throated commercial Govt Model.)
He was a gunnie, and we spent several hours talking guns when sitting in the CP just down the hall from the VP's hotel room. At the time we (the Marines) were issued S&W Victory Models, but I carried a commercial M10 4" pencil barrel round butt (still my favorite revolver). The only ammo we had available was M41 ball (issue -- the least effective .38 load available at the time!) or 158 gr LRN, like most cops carried at the time.
Lee Jurras was just getting Super Vel started up at that time, and one of the German or Austrians (Hirtenberg?) made a SP 9mm load.
In 1974 I was invited to visit the SS range in Greenbelt, MD (the SS range AIC was a former Marine pilot; I had done a gun trade with him at the Greenbelt gun show). The revolvers the agents there were carrying were 2.5" 19s and maybe some 2.5" 66s (the brain cells die so quickly!).
(If you read this, Hi, Robbie. And thanks again.)
Did they ever carry Model 13s like the FBI did?
When I came on the job in 1970, the Uniformed Division carried 4 inch Model 15 (blue), and had been for several years before 1970. The supervisors (Lt. and above) carried M19 with 2 1/2 inch bbl (blue). All agents carried the same M19. These guns stayed in service over 20 years until Sig autos were adopted. Ammo used was Super Vel 110 JHP early, later over to Federal 110 JHP. All ammo was .38 special, regardless of the issued weapon. Other weapons issued were the 870 pump loaded with #4 buck, and UZI sub with 9mm ball ammo. UZI were more trouble than they were worth. Lots of malfunctions, usually caused by the shooter.
Since at least 1930 until the late 19050's early 60's the Uniformed Secret Service Division{then known as the White House Police} carried 4 inch Colt Official Police 38 Special revolvers.
Agents during this time period carried Colt Detective Specials also 38 caliber. Ammo was 158 grain lead round nose.
Agents during this time period carried Colt Detective Specials also 38 caliber. Ammo was 158 grain lead round nose.
FWIW, Whit Collins [the modern innovator of the 10 mm cartridge] had articles in the 3-71 and 12-72 Guns & Ammo. This is 1972.
"The primary tool of the G-Men, T-Men,
et al, has traditionally been the .38/357 bore revolver. The present arm of issue
is the Smith & Wesson Model 19 round
butt, 21/2-inch, loaded with Super Vel
ll0-grain hollow-point .38 Special ammo.
With the round butt's short barrel, .38 Spl.
loads lose only 125 fps from full .357s,
at the muzzle. Cost is cut considerably by specifying the .38.
Secret Service, and other federal agencies, are in the process of changing over to S&W's
stainless steel version of the Combat Magnum, the Model 66.
...Most agents working during my tour
were wearing the usual S&W Model 19
round butt, in Bucheimer-Clark holsters.
They had a choice of either an inside waistband
crossdraw, or a high-ride hip
scabbard on the shooting-hand side. Reloads
are carried in belt drops.
...AGENT NO.2
A younger man, this agent has his coat
buttoned over a Smith & Wesson Model
15 4-inch (Combat Masterpiece), which
is also commonly issued by the Secret
Service. ... He tells me later that he has a few split shot sewn into the lower lining of his coat, and that this makes it stay swept aside on the FBI-style draw. It's a trick he picked up from a canny old Scotland Yard security man who often accompanies Queen Elizabeth and the Royal Family."
"The primary tool of the G-Men, T-Men,
et al, has traditionally been the .38/357 bore revolver. The present arm of issue
is the Smith & Wesson Model 19 round
butt, 21/2-inch, loaded with Super Vel
ll0-grain hollow-point .38 Special ammo.
With the round butt's short barrel, .38 Spl.
loads lose only 125 fps from full .357s,
at the muzzle. Cost is cut considerably by specifying the .38.
Secret Service, and other federal agencies, are in the process of changing over to S&W's
stainless steel version of the Combat Magnum, the Model 66.
...Most agents working during my tour
were wearing the usual S&W Model 19
round butt, in Bucheimer-Clark holsters.
They had a choice of either an inside waistband
crossdraw, or a high-ride hip
scabbard on the shooting-hand side. Reloads
are carried in belt drops.
...AGENT NO.2
A younger man, this agent has his coat
buttoned over a Smith & Wesson Model
15 4-inch (Combat Masterpiece), which
is also commonly issued by the Secret
Service. ... He tells me later that he has a few split shot sewn into the lower lining of his coat, and that this makes it stay swept aside on the FBI-style draw. It's a trick he picked up from a canny old Scotland Yard security man who often accompanies Queen Elizabeth and the Royal Family."
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