Seeming Disdain for 40S&W

I too asked this question a while back. The replies were pretty much the same.

13 months ago I didn't even own a .40 by any manufacturer. Things changed when I got a Shorty 40 for "nothing" to go with my Shorty 45. Mostly all of the 3rd Gen .40's (not the PC target examples,) were selling for very low prices so I kept going.

To support the no interest in .40 cal I'm posting what I found that was out there. These were, (are,) all wonderful S&W offerings back then and while not pennies on the dollar I'm sure the original cost was higher. Just the NIB 4040PD at $425 w/box and everything HAD to have been retailed higher. And yes, I can still get .40 ammunition here but not 9mm or .45 acp.

Ive gathered all of these pistols for just over $2,000. Seems like a lot but just two or three combined should be that much.
 

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That's a nice collection 4T5GUY, and I'd agree a hell of a deal for the money paid. I've seen well used 4040PD's go for almost twice what you paid, and some NIB examples for around 1k.
 
From a convert. I thought 40 was a silly "wasted caliber" between 45 ACP and 9mm. A failed experiment from the Miami Vice era. I passed up many good guns at good prices because they were just "40 caliber".

Ha Ha - Among some other deals a few months back CDNN was selling CHP Model 4006 TSW's for $399.99. Why not - it is a third gen - even if it is 40. One range trip changed my mind. What a solid performer round. Not a replacement to 9mm and 45 ACP, but every bit worthy of its own place.

Here, the 40 caliber guns are even sold out like anything not rimfire that goes bang. Who cares if other people do not understand 40 caliber, their loss, your gain. Your opportunity to pick up what you like.
 

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Funny thing is I never owned a .40S&W until 9 months ago when they were abandoned by all LE agencies and could be had for next to nothing. I wanted to have a couple just to round out my collection..I mean my accumulation. I bought a Sig P239 in 40S&W and 357 Sig (2 barrels) and I bought a S&W 4006TSW CHP. The 4006TSW is currently enroute to BMCM for conversion to 357 Sig too. So I will have 2 pistols that can shoot either caliber. I have nothing at all against the .40 cal. But I am with 18DAI. I prefer 45ACP over either of them. I also like the 357 Sig and 10mm.
The best caliber for CCW is the one you are comfortable shooting and confident with. All the research/ advertisement/ articles that can be found at nauseum on this subject gets tiring. I just like to shoot and I like fast bullets and I like big bullets. 10mm, 357 Sig and 45ACP.
(and 357 magnum, .44mag and 460 XVR and 500SW)
 
I too avoided .40 on it's recoil reputation. I was a dummy. Now I have 4 (4006TSW CHP, Beretta 96 Centurian, M&P 2.0, and I just tripped over a HiPower in 40 I'm negotiating about.)
I won't be carrying any of them, I have 9mm and 45 and can't see adding another carry piece I won't carry...but for range guns and additions to the accumulation...they are not unpleasant to shoot and as I off-load some of my 9s I'm "upgrading" with good-quality 40s.
 
Forte Smitten Wesson said:
Of course he can't. After all, if he was hit by a .40 or a .45 then he's too busy being incapacitated by their awesome one-shot-stopping-power to being saying much of anything and if he was hit by a 9mm then he probably doesn't even know that he's been shot! ;)
Click to expand...

OOPS :p Apparently, Law Enforcement and Military in virtually every country in the world has been wrong for 120 years, and nearly all still haven't learned.:D:D
 
I avoided 40 due too not wanting another cartridge to reload and from reading forums where people loathed it. Only got into it after buying my CHP4006 from copper custom where my buddy works for a steal of a price at 363 handpicked. Then followed that with the Brinks 4046 from the dealer in florida when they had them a few months back for 279. Also bought a year ago 5k of brass from a buddy for 40 bucks.


First time shooting 40 from my 4006 was very pleasant. With the brass I bought and collected over the years I have roughly 7k to last me a long time and maybe pass to my son when he gets to the age to start shooting.
 
Sevens said:
And I'm only going to say this because it's infuriating when some tool comes along to tell you that he isn't gonna be attacked by milk jugs...

I have also noticed a major difference in knocking the hell out of steel plates between 9 and .40.

Not being a coroner or ballistician, I cannot tell you how much difference they make on a human attacker, but what we see on solid non-living objects can't be totally irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Years ago a friend and I did the same experiment on a swinger target shooting 9mm and .45 ACP. The 115 or 124 grain loads would move the plate roughly half the distance of the .45. The .45 would swing the target back a full 90°, from hanging vertical to horizontal. This was just ball ammo, not hollow points.
 
4Tay

44 years in the hobby and i'm a 45-9 guy. (throw in 357-38 as i love me my wheelguns). Passed all these years on the 4tay. Didn't care about the tests, opinions was just full of pistol calibers.

Also seen 4013s, TSW, CS, P229 NO Rail, P2000 SK etc. at great $$$ here in CA and was meh.

Today have 2000 rounds of inexpensive 4tay collected over the past couple months and no pistol.

Been scouring the earth for my new to me 40. Everything i want is either in San Diego or NorCal (I'm in the LA area). DemoCraps make it hard to aquire here. No shipping and 2 trips for the FFL.

Anybody local with one for me i'm in...no opinion other than "i want 1."
 
HYPURR said:
Been scouring the earth for my new to me 40. Everything i want is either in San Diego or NorCal (I'm in the LA area). DemoCraps make it hard to aquire here. No shipping and 2 trips for the FFL.
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I know this may sound like a cop-out, but the Glock 22 would be a good choice. Available, light, reasonably priced, and can be converted to fire 357Sig and 9mm Para with drop in barrels and mag swaps.
 
Along with greater magazine capacity, the world-wide ubiquity of the 9mm generally making it cheaper to acquire and bullet technology helping it fight above its weight class; however, the argument of improved bullet technology can be applied to all calibers. That said, I still buy into the original justification of the .40 being a good compromise between the 9mm and .45 for the capacity v. energy debate.
 
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S&W59 said:
I know this may sound like a cop-out, but the Glock 22 would be a good choice. Available, light, reasonably priced, and can be converted to fire 357Sig and 9mm Para with drop in barrels and mag swaps.
Click to expand...

I'm waiting on the gen 5 G23 to drop and ill grab one just because.... my first pistol ever was a G22, thing was huge when I was 20yo lol....
 
I own a 1.0 M&P40 in 4.25" and a G23 Gen2, just ordered 5 boxes of fmj for practice.

Trying to decide between a 2.0 M&P40C or 40SC as my next purchase.

I like the .40 as Woods gun and CC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The FBI has to train lawyers, accountants, engineers and lots of other office type people in all sizes. A lot of these people come to the job from grad school, not from military or police backgrounds and only shoot because it's a employment requirement. So they get trained to the lowest common denominator. It's a lot easier to get a 9mm to fit everything from girly hands to gorilla mitts. It's also a lot easier with the 9 to get someone trained up to be a mediocre shot and then give them a gun that holds more bullets so that they have more chances to hit something. The FBI didn't go back to 9's because they found some magic bullet or reinvented the laws of physics. They went back because they found a round that's almost, could be, might be as good as something else and fits their logistical needs better than those other rounds. If you notice, the branches of the FBI that do more shooting and are more likely to actually get into a gun fight, like HRT, carry something other than 9mm. What will happen is that another Miami will take place and someone will take out some agents after absorbing 20 9mm hits and they will do the dance all over again. It's more about politics and logistics than finding the best gun and round and training program. In the end, the 9, 10, 45, 500 magnum all have about the same effect if the bullet placement is right. This has been the long way around of saying that the FBI (famous but incompetent), doesn't really have all the answers and using them as the standard is a fools errend.
 
I hardly know where to start.

About half of my new agent class was former police or military. This was in 1991, but when I got out in 2016 the ratio was about the same. (Even the famous "backflip discharge" agent from a couple of years ago was an Army veteran.) The "lawyers and accountants" thing hasn't been true for decades, if it ever was. The requirement is at least a Bachelors degree and three years of responsible work experience.

In my last RA there were two former military, a former Sheriff's Deputy, a former LAPD cop, a former uniformed USSS guy, and a former high school football coach. That coach could shoot, too.

The FBI used .40s for about 20 years. They were still on the POW list when I retired. New agents shoot about 10K rounds in the Academy and don't graduate unless the qualify. Then agents qualify 4 times a year forever after, to the tune of about 1,000 rounds per year per Agent. I was a firearms instructor as an additional duty for 20 of my 25 years. I can count on one hand the number of agents who had trouble qualifying. (We shoot from 25, 15, 7, 5, and 3 yards, two hand, stong hand, weak hand). The "hard kicking .40" was not a problem for our dainty wrists.

SWAT and HRT both carry 9mms. The 1911's are long gone.

The change to .40 was about one thing - money. After 9/11 all the dough went to upgrading computers and then hiring analysts to look at them. The ammo budget never changed, while ammo kept getting more expensive. It went from "take what you want for practice" to "well, maybe a box....", to "nope, we barely have enough to qualify", to handing out a box at a time and locking the extra in the Suburban during quals. 9 is cheaper than .40, even when you buy by the boxcar load.

The FBI doesn't issue ammo to other agencies or departments. The taxpayer foots the bill for all the hard work the ammo gurus do, so it is made available to all. Everyone is free to use what they like.
 
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The company I work for is the largest FFL in the SE. We buy entire LE trade in inventory. They're getting rid of 40's, & we're not selling many. About 3 years ago, we bought every Walther P99c they had, as it was being discontinued, & we were selling them for $150 less than anybody else. After a year, all the 9mm's were gone, but there's still plenty of 40's. Nobody wants 40 now, & they just don't sell. Sure, some people love 40, but most prefer the 9. I see this every day. GARY
 
It's a buyers market for the .40s. Has been for a while. There really is nothing wrong with it and actually has some good points.
It's smack in the middle of 9mm and .45 and shares some qualities of each.
Some like it, some don't and some are ambivalent towards it.
I'm more in the latter group. I like the .45 but I also like the size, capacity, performance and PRICE of many of the .40s
So my preference as far as a, let's say Glock would be G30-G27-G26 since they are almost identical in size.
 
Whooeee! Some pretty strong opinions and well-crafted replies.
I've never been a .40 guy. The department I worked 35 years with never adopted that caliber in my time there. Only .38, 9, and 45 were ever authorized for the regular officers, although 45 GAP made an appearance for a few years but eventually fell out of favor. I went to the first series of semi-auto transition classes in 1989, when 9 was the only choice. I was happy just to have an excuse to buy more guns.
Over the years, I stuck with what the department experts at the range selected. As the budget got squeezed and caliber choices were narrowed, they indirectly indicated that since 9 was cheaper than 40, the decision was made to stick with it and only have 45 ACP as an alternative. Since they supplied ammunition and had approval authority of what guns we carried on or off-duty, I didn't upset the apple cart.
In retirement, I still use 38, 9 and 45, although I picked up a couple 44 Specials for fun. Add in the 5.56, 300BLK, .22, 12 and 20 gauge, and my ammo bunker has more than enough variety for my taste. I don't diss the .40, just don't see the need at this point in my life.
Y'all have a good weekend.
 
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