SemiAuto Ejection Pattern

[BZimm]

I have successfully reloaded and run my first 300 round batch of .40 cal. ammo. The gun is a Glock 23, gen 4. I used HS6 powder with 165 gr. RNFP Ranier plated bullets. The average of several data sources started at 7.4 gr and maxed at 8.1 gr. I loaded 100 each at 7.5, 7.7 and 7.9 gr. All 300 rounds chambered, fired and ejected without incident. Now to the point.

I learned, against my prior scepticism, that I could easily sense the difference between each load, and so could the Glock. Next I learned that the low end and high end loads both felt more comfortable and seemed more accurate than the middle recipe. I was shooting freehand so the accuracy comment has way too much "me" in it.

I was paying close attention to the landing point of the spent brass and the common trait I did notice was that my brass was all over the place. The majority was about four feet to the right and back a bit. But the lower end loads were up, left, back and even forward. My only similar experience with this is when I have shot light 9mm factory rounds the brass tended to eject up, and a heavier bullet round ejected more to the right.

Having said all that and bored you folks to tears (yes I am nuts), is there anything to learn from the ejection pattern of a semiauto when experimenting with load recipes? I have a tendency to overthink things, so I figured I would check here. Any and all observations are appreciated.

BZimm

 

[rwsmith]

Only two things to learn.....

It's most important that they DO eject, trouble free.

Different strength loads are going to eject differently.

That's all I know and all I care to know. I've read a few people trying to forensically analyze their ejection patterns. I think this that way too much TV show compared to shooting, learning and having fun. If there's no problem there is nothing to fix. Now something like, "Every time my gun fails to feed, it ejects the empty in my face. THAT might tell you something.

 

[vipermd]

Being north of the 46th Parallel I too think about these things. I would suggest that you get a box of "factory" 165 gr, and off a rest fire about 20 rds. mark the location with a circle of paint. I can use multi colors of paint since the one range is in my backyard. If you find that most lie within a 12" circle ( 75 % ) then you can move forward and try 20 of each weight, making circles at each time. This so give you some "data" which you can analyze and see if there is a pattern or more importantly it is of statistical significance. An AR I have will drop every 55 grain casing into a 6 " circle, a M&P 40 with 165 gr ranger will keep them with in 8", my on Sigma 40F thinks it is a feeder and spreads them to the right, forward and "backward", but it feeds ,fire, ejects every round and will hit where it is aimed, in 2.5-3" a year or to ago, spending more time with the MP40's. I have read that if the extractor is "tuned correctly" and the ammo is consistent the ammo should land on a pile. Yes I have seen a difference is brass location with 165 vs 180 gr. This is not double blind research, just interesting observations. Be Safe,

 

[vipermd]

I've read a few people trying to forensically analyze their ejection patterns.

I agree going bang, ejecting and feeding are the most important features of any weapon. The AR I mentioned above would with my wife firing would hit my hand with 25/30 brass, I have others, that work fine but zip brass everywhere. Does it matter- No, but it is nice when you can look in the same hole in the snow for the majority of your brass. If someone wanted to donate the ammo, I would do semi, slide-fire and full auto. Be Safe,

 

[Twoboxer]

The ejectors on 1911s have a macabre sense of humor, no matter the load. And 45ACP brass plays right along with it too

An old guy I shoot with has developed a soft 9mm load that he fires seated, from a rest, and it bounces off the side wall of the booth and lands in his brass bag 80% of the time. Now THAT's a tuned load

Without a chrono, a good way to judge relative velocity of your handloads is to compare ejection force/distance vs factory.

Finally, every good load I've developed ejects successfully

And that's all I've ever learned about ejection.

 

[rwsmith]

LOL, I should have added.....

...I should have added that finding my brass is important. At the indoor range it bounces everywhere and at the outdoor range it mixes in with everybody elses. I just sweep up what I think is mine and sort it out later.

By all means satisfy your curiosity. I get into research projects where about 1/3 of the posters say I'm wasting my time and the rest want to know what gives.

Recently I proposed shooting some very heavy (165 gr) bullets out of a 9mm. Many said forget it, it wasn't worth pursuing. It turned out that Xtreme did make 165 grain bullets and even had some reloading data for them. I got past the first stage of testing velocity and doing some penetration tests and am trying to figure out how to go further.

 

[Wise_A]

If it ejects, fine. If it does not eject, there is a problem somewhere. And not necessarily "load is too light".

Everything beyond that is just supposition. Sometimes you can suppose correctly, and sometimes there's a variable you're not seeing.

...I should have added that finding my brass is important. At the indoor range it bounces everywhere and at the outdoor range it mixes in with everybody elses. I just sweep up what I think is mine and sort it out later.

Do you pack your reloads in some kind of box? Take a Sharpie and make a swipe along each row of cartridges. Now your brass is marked from the uncouth savages you shoot with.

 

[federali]

Forward Ejection

My guess for casings ejecting forward is that the ejection is weak. The slide is starting forward while the casing is still ejecting or in contact with the extractor, hence, a forward pattern.

For me, maximum loads tend to eject the farthest away from my shooting position. If ejection patterns are erratic with the same ammunition and a consistent hold and stance, that's an indication that the gun itself needs a good cleaning or tuning.

 

[OKFC05]

I have a chrono and shoot a lot. With most semi-auto handguns, a load in the "typical" power range for the caliber will land 3 to 6 feet away when I shoot it. It will vary if you have a truly limp wrister, and a light load and limp wrist add up to erratic, weak ejection.


When the slide does not go firmly all the way back, then the impact of the cartridge against the ejector is less than full force, and varies shot to shot. That's my theory, and I haven't heard a better one.


I "cured" an M&P of erratic ejection in the hands of beginners using light range loads by changing the recoil spring from 16# to 15#. It worked fine either way with me shooting it.

 

[H Richard]

I guess I'm not concerned about just where the brass lands, I tend to concentrate on where the bullet lands. When I am satisfied with the accuracy of the bullet I don't worry about the brass. It's generally within a 3 ft area.

 

[gwpercle]

What's to learn.....empty cases loaded to different power levels eject and land in different places. By adjusting your powder charge you can adjust where you want the cases to land, but this is not true in every case.
I would tell you that long as the cases aren't bouncing off your forehead , then don't overthink it .
Sounds like you're doing just fine , keep at it and load safe.
Gary

 

[fredj338]

Generally, the higher the pressures involved, the further the brass will fly from the gun. Direction is often a product of the ejector/extractor angles, but it is a general rule of thumb. My 40 minor brass drops just right of my feet. My full power 10mm stuff flys about 15ft to the right rear.

 

[rwsmith]

Got me thinking....

How much of it is the gun? How much of it is the ammo? How much of it is the shooter going anywhere from 'stiff wrist' to limp wristing on the verge of failure.

 

[fredj338]

How much of it is the gun? How much of it is the ammo? How much of it is the shooter going anywhere from 'stiff wrist' to limp wristing on the verge of failure.

Its relevant, same gun, same shooter with ammo being the variable, the distance the brass flys from the gun has some meaning.

 

[BZimm]

Kinda what I thought. Thank You.

BZimm

 

[hdwhit]

BZimm wrote:
...is there anything to learn from the ejection pattern of a semiauto when experimenting with load recipes?

Yes.

A group of cartridges loaded the same with the same bullet fired from the same gun by a shooter with the same stance and grip should eject cases so that they land - or or less - in proximity of one another.

For example, in my 9mm, factory ammunition travels about 8 feet behind and slightly to the right of me. The cases all end up in a circle under 2 feet in diameter.

So with that, I knew a load that kicked the brass 12 feet almost striht to the right was too hot without even having to inspect the brass or look at the primers.

If the cases are strung out all over the place, check how consistent the weight of your powder charges are.

Anything out of the ordinary when shooting reloaded ammunition (strange sound, strange feeling, strange ejection pattern, etc.) should be noted in your range notes and investigated.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

I know for us reloaders,retrieving brass is quite important.But when shooting,the front sight should be the only important thing!That being said,as far as I'm concerned with SAuto shooting,brass ejected ''out of regular pattern''might be caused by lots of things besides uneven reloads.Just holding the gun with a loose wrist will cause the brass to ''shoot out of pattern''if I might say.
Like said by other posters,as long as it ejects properly,I'm not overly concerned.I've already got enough problem concentrating on the front sight!
Qc

 

[Inyo Boy]

I shoot outdoors at the inlaw's farm. I will lay out a tarp on the ground to help collect ejected brass to be reloaded again. When working on load development I make note of and prefer loads that eject similar to average factory rounds. I am able to collect 99% of my cases this way. I also note if cases are ejected too far and land too far away to be easily found. This also helps tells me if I may be approaching excessive pressures. I don't like cases that land at my feet, hit the bill of my cap, etc either and will increase the charge to get them to land where I want.

 

[Squarebutt]

I experienced the effects of precision reloading about 20 years ago while shooting the Vermont state outdoor bullseye championship. My friend Ron was firing in the station to my left, and in timed and rapid fire about 15 of 20 hot pieces of his .45 brass landed on my hand, my wrist or on top of my pistol as I fired. We had a few laughs over it.
Ron was famous for heavy loads in his revolvers and Desert Eagles. He wasn't happy if the flame was less than 3' at the muzzle. Cancer took him too young, and we miss him.