Can't be done. My little feist, Jackson, would completely ignore everything I did to keep him out of the street. He was easily trained on everything else, and very obedient in every other way. One day he ran under a moving Toyota and was rolled around pretty good before he finally rolled out, un hurt, from the side. He came out biting and attacking the car as if it was alive. From that point on, he will not go near a moving vehicle, he was finally trained and earned himself a middle initial, Jackson T. (Toyota).
Serious question.... How do you train a dog to stay out of the road?
- Thread starter Hillbilly77
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Ok. My background is more than 30 years in obedience and field training labradors.
Here's my abridged edition on this issue, and on some of the input so far...
Things that don't, or won't work for long....
I know for a fact that I can call my dogs away from running squirrels, rabbits, other dogs, kids, cars people, and even locations I don't want them in. And for even Novice levels of AKC obedience, this is expected from the dogs!
My best solution for you is to get into at least a novice class that teaches positive reinforcement training. You'll then get an obedient, happy dog. And it'll be a rewarding experience for you, too. And no, 18 months is definitely not too old to train.
You don't really want a dog who only stays out of the street...you want a dog who knows what to do when you command it, including coming when called. And the neat byproduct of consistently calling the dog away from the street is that sooner or later, he just gets it, and won't bother going near it anymore.
Good luck, and hope this helped!
Len
Here's my abridged edition on this issue, and on some of the input so far...
Things that don't, or won't work for long....
- Punishment. Not that there's never a time for negative reinforcement, but 99.99% of the time is unnecessary, and an "easy way out" for the "trainer."
- Expecting your dog to be outside, unattended for a long stretch of time and staying in the yard or out of the street is going to be a hopeless effort. They might get it at first, but will get lazy or push the envelope when you're not around. [See 3]
- Electronic fences are good if the trainer does his job. As Phil said, once a dog learns what it takes to get through them, you've lost the usefulness. Dogs will always, always take the path of least resistance to their perceived desire.
- I have used a shock collar one time, with one dog, for one "zap." In this case is was to reinforce a "down-stay" command at 200 yards. The dog was required to be there for 7 minutes without further input from me, and just wouldn't get it. I put the collar on him, gave him one spark at the lowest setting when he tried to get up, and he finally got it. That collar is gathering dust in the garage now.
- A fence is good if you don't want to spend the time training.
- An electric fence is good, if you can see your way clear to paying for it, and recognize that the bulk of the training happens in the first two weeks. Most dogs trained to buried fences don't cross the line later, even if they're not wearing the collar. But, again, remember Phil's comment...once they learn that they can get through, you're in trouble!
- Positive reinforcement training. The BEST way. What you want is not just to train your dog to stay out of the street. Everything you want hinges on one command...COME! If you let your dog outside, and have gone through the training and know, just know that your dog will come when called, you've won the battle.
I know for a fact that I can call my dogs away from running squirrels, rabbits, other dogs, kids, cars people, and even locations I don't want them in. And for even Novice levels of AKC obedience, this is expected from the dogs!
My best solution for you is to get into at least a novice class that teaches positive reinforcement training. You'll then get an obedient, happy dog. And it'll be a rewarding experience for you, too. And no, 18 months is definitely not too old to train.
You don't really want a dog who only stays out of the street...you want a dog who knows what to do when you command it, including coming when called. And the neat byproduct of consistently calling the dog away from the street is that sooner or later, he just gets it, and won't bother going near it anymore.
Good luck, and hope this helped!
Len
gdnagle
US Veteran
Had a guy I worked with who had a Jack Russell. He had a electric collar but said when the dog saw something and chased after it, he went right through the wire with a little yelp. Problem was that when he was done he could not get back in going at a slow rate of speed so once on the other side.
You don't train a dog to stay out of the road; you either put him behind a fence or on a leash.
You can't because no matter how much you train him he's never going to understand the why of staying out of the road and the day is going to come when he runs right out in front of a car.
You can't because no matter how much you train him he's never going to understand the why of staying out of the road and the day is going to come when he runs right out in front of a car.
cowart
US Veteran
If the dog is allowed to roam unrestrained and unsupervised, there will always be a possibility of him ending up in the road, under the wheels of a car. Set aside enough cash to cover the cost of a vet bill for a major injury, or the purchase of a replacement dog.
"Training" any pet requires HOURS and HOURS of involvement by the trainer.
Being persistent and FIRM works every time.
Being persistent and FIRM works every time.
PA Reb
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Our mailbox is across the road so we've always walked our dogs down to get the mail with us. We stop about 5 feet from the edge of the road and command them to sit. If they disobey they get a firm "NO" and receive corporal punishment. Usually takes but about a week or two and our dogs never go in the road.
I'm thinking a 1 1/2 year old dog is no longer a puppy.
I believe your suggestion is the best. The dog can indeed be trained to not leave your property which includes the road. I once trained two Dobermans to not cross an imaginary line between ours and the neighbors property. They would both approach the line off leash and then stop dead in their tracks and turn around. So, saying it can't be done isn't totally correct.
Start by taking the dog with you often on a leash and when you get to within whatever distance you will allow the dog from the road, teach it to sit and stay. Start rewarding it and it will soon get that part down pat. Also, start to teach it not to follow you once you go beyond your set limits. Once this is accomplished, start the same training off leash. You will be surprised what they will do IF they know a reward (food of some sort) will be waiting. It may frustrate you at times but be persistent and don't give up because all dogs, no matter what their age, can be taught. Good luck!
PA Reb
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Sorry but I have to really disagree with that advice. A dog doesn't have to "understand the why" - none do. A dog doesn't know why it is being marched around a show ring but they will do and act as they have been taught through training. This was all proven by Pavlov. Below is a quote from an article on his experiments.
"The Development of Classical Conditioning Theory
Based on his observations, Pavlov suggested that the salivation was a learned response. The dogs were responding to the sight of the research assistants' white lab coats, which the animals had come to associate with the presentation of food. Unlike the salivary response to the presentation of food, which is an unconditioned reflex, salivating to the expectation of food is a conditioned reflex.
Pavlov then focused on investigating exactly how these conditioned responses are learned or acquired. In a series of experiments, Pavlov set out to provoke a conditioned response to a previously neutral stimulus. He opted to use food as the unconditioned stimulus, or the stimulus that evokes a response naturally and automatically. The sound of a metronome was chosen to be the neutral stimulus. The dogs would first be exposed to the sound of the ticking metronome, and then the food was immediately presented.
After several conditioning trials, Pavlov noted that the dogs began to salivate after hearing the metronome. "A stimulus which was neutral in and of itself had been superimposed upon the action of the inborn alimentary reflex," Pavlov wrote of the results. "We observed that, after several repetitions of the combined stimulation, the sounds of the metronome had acquired the property of stimulating salivary secretion." In other words, the previously neutral stimulus (the metronome) had become what is known as a conditioned stimulus that then provoked a conditioned response (salivation)."
Doug M.
Member
Barrier and restraint are your friends. I simply do not trust the ability that most of us (myself included) to reliably train something like that in a manner that will keep all the various stimuli from working.
Our dogs are not out very long at a time, unless we are with them, and the yards are fenced anyway. I don't want them to be harassed by pedestrians (which I have seen happen to others' dogs, destroying their temperament); Bozo at least will go bananas at seeing someone because of his Fila blood, and attract a lot of negative attention, etc. I am not a fan of electric fence, and have heard of the same syndrome with motivated dogs getting out, but not getting back in. In addition, the electric fence will not keep out unwelcome intruders, animal and human, and I want them kept out.
The odds of complete success in what you desire are modest, the cost of being wrong catastrophic. Don't do it.
Our dogs are not out very long at a time, unless we are with them, and the yards are fenced anyway. I don't want them to be harassed by pedestrians (which I have seen happen to others' dogs, destroying their temperament); Bozo at least will go bananas at seeing someone because of his Fila blood, and attract a lot of negative attention, etc. I am not a fan of electric fence, and have heard of the same syndrome with motivated dogs getting out, but not getting back in. In addition, the electric fence will not keep out unwelcome intruders, animal and human, and I want them kept out.
The odds of complete success in what you desire are modest, the cost of being wrong catastrophic. Don't do it.
Until they receive a stimulus that overrides their training.
Let me say it a different way, the dog doesn't understand the danger of crossing the road and they will never understand the danger no matter how much you train them.
So when the dog is out playing in the yard and sees a squirrel or whatever run across the road it doesn't stop and think "I might get killed crossing this road." It just reacts to the stimulus and chases the squirrel. Sooner or later that ends poorly for the dog.
If I let my dog run loose near a street I'm betting his life on my abilities as a trainer, I'd rather restrain him and make it a nonissue.
LVSteve
Member
A road and unfenced animals is always a bad combo, regardless of training.
NY has a state wide LEASH LAW...
If you own a dog you are REQUIRED to keep it contained or on a leash.
This not only protects the dog, but you, your family, and the poor guy that's going to eventually kill your dog.
PS - I LOVE dogs - However, ANY loose dog that approaches me showing ANY type of aggression is a DEAD DOG. I've been mauled once but NEVER AGAIN.
Contain your dog!
If you own a dog you are REQUIRED to keep it contained or on a leash.
This not only protects the dog, but you, your family, and the poor guy that's going to eventually kill your dog.
PS - I LOVE dogs - However, ANY loose dog that approaches me showing ANY type of aggression is a DEAD DOG. I've been mauled once but NEVER AGAIN.
Contain your dog!
vigil617
US Veteran
Well, Hillbilly, I think you've gotten all the versions and different answers to your question here, except one:
Tell your dog to "sit," then place your computer in front of him and tell him to read this thread.
Of course I'm serious. Why do you ask?
Tell your dog to "sit," then place your computer in front of him and tell him to read this thread.
Of course I'm serious. Why do you ask?
PA Reb
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All true. My only intention was to show what a well trained dog can do. If done properly, a dog can and will ignore natural stimulus that would normally cause it to react. Its only through good training that they can be taught to ignore their natural instincts and allow training to become their new instinct. I only say all of this through experience.
I've owned and trained Dobermans and Rottweilers for well over forty years now and have had some rather remarkable results. I've also owned Rottweilers who were professionally trained. One such Rottweiler, which was professionally trained for personal / family / home protection was for instance taught to react to commands in an instant. He was also trained to never accept a morsel of food from anyone unless given a specific command from his owners, us. That dog would go into a sit and watch command and would sit for hours drooling staring at a steak dropped in front of him until one of us released him by voice command. He would completely ignore that same steak if it had been placed there by a stranger. I'd say that's pretty good evidence that its possible to train a dog to overcome its natural instinct. Also, the Dobermans I mentioned in my post both had very high prey drives. They would however, sit along the imaginary line between ours and the neighbors property watching rabbits yet never allow their natural instincts to take over. Those rabbits were completely safe unless they happened to "cross the line."
I believe however that you're right when referring to the fact that it would only take one instance and it could be all over for the dog.
Thanks for the friendly conversation!
Leash. They do make a shock collar that gives you the option of shock or vibrate. My pup responds amazingly to just the vibrate function. It should accompany some command like sit or stop or no so that they associate your voice command to the buzz. This is followed by a reward, typically a bisquit and "good dog". They will learn very quickly to follow your commands.
Squirrel, cat or another dog across the street can always interfere with training unless you put the time in like a police K9 team.
Squirrel, cat or another dog across the street can always interfere with training unless you put the time in like a police K9 team.
Every dog Ive owned has been wary of traffic but one.At my last house there was an Australian Shepard that lived across a very busy road from my neighborhood.I watched him appear on the one side and wait for traffic to clear before crossing it many,many times.He wouldn't let anyone,including the dog catcher get within 50 yards of him.
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cowart
US Veteran
The New York state dog laws make interesting reading.
New York Consolidated Dog Laws
For example, if your neighbor or one of your neighbor's dogs or other domestic animals is bitten by your dog running loose, your neighbor is authorized to immediately kill your dog, and you will not be able to take any legal action against them.
How much liability insurance are you planning on getting?
vigil617
US Veteran
Fido: "You wanna piece o' me? You wanna piece o' me?"
Spot: "Are you tawkin' to me? I ast you, are you tawkin' to me?"
Fido: "Fuhgeddaboutit."
Spot: "Oh no. No. You wuz tawkin' to me. It's on now, boy."
Hillbilly77: "Wow. Two tawkin' dogs! What are the chances?"
Squarebutt
Member
We've had English Springer Spaniels for decades. The previous two, a female and a male, were easily trained to stay on our side of the road no matter what. Our current female is a hunting maniac. Her nose is on the ground 99% of the time, even when she's peeing. She has incredible eyesight, and will bolt after a squirrel a half-mile away. We thought about a buried fence, but quickly realized she'd blow right through it. So she's on leash around the house. Every day we drive to the next town and turn her loose in a big dog park that's isolated from the road. She runs and hunts until her tongue is dragging and then she comes home and crashes. In pheasant season she's unstoppable.
Oh NO! Mines going on 4 and I hoped she was almost out of "Puppyhood."
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