Setting the record straight on New Classic S&W M27 & M29 (a futile attempt)...

[S&WForty]

Sad news to report....S&W has officially discontinued the Model 27 Classic as of 9/4/2014. There will be no more 27-9's produced in both the 6.5" and 4" variations. They also discontinued the S&W Model 29-10 4" barrel variant but the 6.5" will continue to be manufactured for now.

Until the 27-10 ever becomes a reality all the 27's have something in common. They are all a thing of the past.

Anyone, have actual production numbers on how many 27-9's were manufactured from 2008-2014? Just curious if they were limited due to lack of demand compared to when they were mass produced generations prior. Me personally I had never seen a "Classic" variant of the 27 or 29 in my local gun shop.

Cheers,
Chris

When I bought a 4" 29-10 Dec-2013, the MSRP was about $40 lower than it is now. My LGS price was $839 then. They had one recently, and the price was $919. I guess I now know why they increased the price.

In regard the main topic, the posts back and forth have been very informative and mostly enjoyable to read. I agree with some using the car analogy (old ones have more soul), but I agree with those that say cars are not a good analogy (comparing technology advances, it's just not apples to apples, autos vs firearms).

I decided fall 2013, "I want a .44 Magnum, and what better example that a Dirty Harry S&W???" Being new to revolvers, all the history was a lot to absorb, and I didn't want to study for weeks or longer to know what's fair then hope and wait for a good deal on a vintage 29 to come along. Being able to look for or order a new 29-10 was ideal for me. I also feel like I can shoot it all I want and not really mind the wear and tear. If I had gotten a vintage model, I'd probably want to fire it very infrequently.

 

[Rick_A]

Why does a restored '57 Chevy sometimes sell for close to $100K at auction, when a brand new Chevy goes for way, way less?

The answer: CLASS.

Just wanted to set the record straight.

John

That's a terrible anology. They aren't making a new production of the same car using more modern manufacturing techniques.

 

[Smith&WessonM629C]

I have always wanted a Model 29 ever since I first saw Dirty Harry. I can't speak on the older models of 27 ' s or 29 ' s as I've never owned or fired one,but after searching for over a year for a NIB Blued M29, I recently settled and bought a 629 5". It's Fit and Finish is nothing less than I'd expect from Smith & Wesson and it functions flawlessly. I do wish though that you could purchase the New Model Wheel Gun with Wood Grips instead of those dang rubber ones. In fact, my only complaint on my model 629.

 

[chrisdobz]

The S&W 27-9 should arrive this Wednesday that I recently purchased on GunBroker for $900 NIB as my girlfriends Christmas present. It will be her first handgun. She loved shooting my 29-10 (44 Specials) but I figured she'd enjoy shooting the Model 27 even more due to the reduced recoil of 38/357 and the fact that ammo is on average 60% less than 44 special/magnum.

I'll post photos when it arrives.

FYI - I paid $1,000 out the door for my 29-10 Factory NIB with wood presentation case and everything. Good deal or not it's an amazing firearm that I will own for the rest of my life. I buy my guns for life and shoot the **** out of them. No safe queens for me!!!

Cheers,
Chris

 

[629shooter]

FYI - I paid $1,000 out the door for my 29-10 Factory NIB with wood presentation case and everything. Good deal or not it's an amazing firearm that I will own for the rest of my life. I buy my guns for life and shoot the **** out of them. No safe queens for me!!!

Cheers,
Chris

Enjoy the new N-frames.

 

[murphydog]

Chris, glad you decided to stick around

I was about to suggest you look in the dealer pipeline for your next N frame, as the factory and distributors may be out but the gun shops may have one of what you seek, but I see you already figured that out. Enjoy and give us a range report on that .357 when it arrives (if you can pry it out of your GFs hands)!

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Does the new m27 have the top-strap checkering like the old timers???

 

[muddocktor]

Does the new m27 have the top-strap checkering like the old timers???

I saw a pic recently of a new 27 and the checkering wasn't nearly the same as the older pistols. I think it was laser etched instead of rolled on. It didn't look bad, but it wasn't like the old time checkering at all.

@ Harkrader, I've seen some IL equipped 27's and 627's here and on GB that are 8 shot, but with a traditionally shaped barrel. I now know what my next revolver purchase is going to be. The ones I saw are really nice looking. As a matter of fact, I might look into borrowing from my 401K to buy the 627 I spotted on GB. It's a 4" heavy barrel, but the barrel isn't a slab side; kind of like the barrels on my 27-2 and 27-3, but not tapered.

 

[Dan Christopher]

Sad news to report....S&W has officially discontinued the Model 27 Classic as of 9/4/2014. There will be no more 27-9's produced in both the 6.5" and 4" variations. They also discontinued the S&W Model 29-10 4" barrel variant but the 6.5" will continue to be manufactured for now.

Until the 27-10 ever becomes a reality all the 27's have something in common. They are all a thing of the past.

Anyone, have actual production numbers on how many 27-9's were manufactured from 2008-2014? Just curious if they were limited due to lack of demand compared to when they were mass produced generations prior. Me personally I had never seen a "Classic" variant of the 27 or 29 in my local gun shop.

Cheers,
Chris

I picked up a 29-10 with 4" barrel last month. OTD for $909.43. Really glad I got it now after hearing about this. Tell you what's funny, though. If you look online there's a bunch of 4" 29-10s for sale that are factory engraved, which to me is a turn off.

Oh, well. I am keeping my eyes open for a 6-1/2" 29-10. Glad to hear they will keep making those for a while.

 

[muddocktor]

Dan, I just looked online at the LGS and they have both 4" and 6 1/2" Model 29s in stock. The 4" is selling for $899.98 and the 6 1/2" is selling for $1049.98, but the 6 1/2" has Altamont stocks whereas the 4" description just says checkered walnut stocks.

 

[kbm6893]

Here is a list of all the near PERFECT s&w's I have sold. I regret selling them all but two kids and a mortgage comes first:


19-2 4"
66 No Dash 4"
66-2 4"
13-2 4"
686 No Dash 4"
686 No Dash Snub
65-3 4"
65-3 3"
10-6 4"
64-3 4"

2 different 5906's
3 different 3913's
2 6906's
915. (Don't really miss that one though)

All of those were spotless. I only like like new looking guns. The blueing in the blued ones was perfect.

I miss them all and there is nothing S&w makes now that can even close. Now, I don't tell a person that has a new gun that their gun is inferior in my opinion. Not in a quality sense. I'm sure new revolvers are made well. I had a 642 once and it was fine. but I did have to send it back twice because the new clearcoat finish was peeling right off.

 

[Smith&WessonM629C]

Here's my most recent addition. And these are the grips that I ordered and am waiting to install.

 

[wheelgun28]

I'll chime in here, I have a company that repairs manufacturing machinery. We also set things up and automate lines etc.

Its kinda funny that people talk of CNC machining as a bad thing. Its been around for so long I almost forget the old ways. My dad was working with NC machines in the 1960s.

What has changed is how things are made and designed to utilize the cnc advantage. As an example see the "new "style extractor, made cheaper and very cnc'able.

Heres a first screen of a machine I fired up one day.



A 5 axis mill that they sold off (one of many from S&W)

You can make junk or great stuff on it...

Its a bit over used today, look at some of these 1911s. Fishscales, they look like machining errors to me. All those grip enhancement cuts and gouges.... ewww..

MIM, is it great well no, is it ok for its purpose, yes it works its ok. Id rather have the forged part but...

Other things that were oh shall I say deemed unnecessary like the barrel pin or recessed cylinder, while it true they werent needed. However they sure were nice little features, just as wood stocks with a diamond carved around the escutcheon. The only reason these things were dropped is cost savings. (the diamonds might have had another reason)

A big fact in manufacturing is cost and price point. You need to have a product that people can afford to buy. Wholesale price on things is generally half or less of the store price. On guns it seems to be less of a markup but most go through middle men that make something on it too.

So really an item that sells for $1000.00 is sold for $400 to $500 from the factory. So they must design it, buy the metal, produce all the components, assemble it, test it, box it and then warrenty it.

Anyhow, I was hoping to show that its not such a simple thing to make stuff today and make a profit.

I dont think the new guns are better, they arent worse either. They are just different thats all.

I personally greatly dislike frame mounted firing pins. If they went back to hammer mounted I would probably buy a few new ones.( hint if someone from corporate is reading )

A friend bought a PC 627 5" 8 shot, its really nice but that flat hammer...

Any mechanical type guy need to pick up a old blue smith. Feel it, look at it. Its smooth, its hand fit, the blue is deep and mirror like. It has a feeling in your hand thats hard to describe.

As they say, you pay your money you make your choice!

It all good, its just what suits you

 

[chrisdobz]

I'll chime in here, I have a company that repairs manufacturing machinery. We also set things up and automate lines etc.

Its kinda funny that people talk of CNC machining as a bad thing. Its been around for so long I almost forget the old ways. My dad was working with NC machines in the 1960s.

What has changed is how things are made and designed to utilize the cnc advantage. As an example see the "new "style extractor, made cheaper and very cnc'able.

Heres a first screen of a machine I fired up one day.



A 5 axis mill that they sold off (one of many from S&W)

You can make junk or great stuff on it...

Its a bit over used today, look at some of these 1911s. Fishscales, they look like machining errors to me. All those grip enhancement cuts and gouges.... ewww..

MIM, is it great well no, is it ok for its purpose, yes it works its ok. Id rather have the forged part but...

Other things that were oh shall I say deemed unnecessary like the barrel pin or recessed cylinder, while it true they werent needed. However they sure were nice little features, just as wood stocks with a diamond carved around the escutcheon. The only reason these things were dropped is cost savings. (the diamonds might have had another reason)

A big fact in manufacturing is cost and price point. You need to have a product that people can afford to buy. Wholesale price on things is generally half or less of the store price. On guns it seems to be less of a markup but most go through middle men that make something on it too.

So really an item that sells for $1000.00 is sold for $400 to $500 from the factory. So they must design it, buy the metal, produce all the components, assemble it, test it, box it and then warrenty it.

Anyhow, I was hoping to show that its not such a simple thing to make stuff today and make a profit.

I dont think the new guns are better, they arent worse either. They are just different thats all.

I personally greatly dislike frame mounted firing pins. If they went back to hammer mounted I would probably buy a few new ones.( hint if someone from corporate is reading )

A friend bought a PC 627 5" 8 shot, its really nice but that flat hammer...

Any mechanical type guy need to pick up a old blue smith. Feel it, look at it. Its smooth, its hand fit, the blue is deep and mirror like. It has a feeling in your hand thats hard to describe.

As they say, you pay your money you make your choice!

It all good, its just what suits you

Here, here! Great comment!!!! Every company has to make a product people can afford and they all have to walk that line. Eliminating unnecessary components doesn't reduce quality if the process to manufacture the product increases the quality simultaneously. I'm sure S&W will move away from MIM and go with 3D printed parts within the next 10 years. It's the next best thing and no one will be able to tell the difference from forged or 3D printed.

FYI - In case you haven't noticed but I live in Detroit the heart of the technology driven manufacturing and I dig it! It just keeps getting cooler and cooler and cooler. My jaw drops at some of the stuff they can do and how accurate they can machine a part without needing any finishing process. Ford is eliminating steel and making aluminum king which will be a stop gap to carbon fiber!

Note: Although I think hammer mounted firing pins look cool that's all they are good for is looks (a handgun is really a tool at heart). No gun manufacturer will revert to hammer mounted firing pins due to safety issues of the cartridge firing if dropped. Although rare it happened from time to time.

If I remember correctly the Navi had something to do with this movement?....Regardless, if we are to believe what I have read on the internet the hammerless firing pin design has been around since the turn of the 20th century so it is hardly a modern design or concept.

 

[chrisdobz]

Quick side question because everyone has mentioned the MIM trigger and hammer looking "ugly" compared to forged parts....is there a place on the internet where one could purchase a forged hammer and trigger for an N Frame S&W?!?! If not I'll have to tool up my buddies CNC and start making them for all my Smith Forum buddies

I might have to start a new thread on this subject...

 

[AveragEd]

As a matter of fact, I have a color-casehardened pair of them I would sell.

$150 shipped to the lower 48 via USPS Priority Mail.

Ed

 

[murphydog]

Related to previous posts, the old-style forged hammer and trigger will not work in the MIM guns; the latter went to the frame-mounted firing pin and two pins won't fit in the same space, if you get the mental picture here .

Making forged MIM-pattern parts is a different question; don't know if anyone has asked it before.

 

[Harkrader]

Craftsmanship vs Tupperware, both Colts



They (Colt) just didn't make 'em any better'n this. 1921/28 Navy Overstamp Thompson.

If you're headed for The Desert or just want a full auto for home defense, which would pick: The Thompson or a M4 carbine?
*I* think nobody in their right mind would pick the Thompson, but for collectors there is only one choice.

 

[chrisdobz]

Related to previous posts, the old-style forged hammer and trigger will not work in the MIM guns; the latter went to the frame-mounted firing pin and two pins won't fit in the same space, if you get the mental picture here .

Making forged MIM-pattern parts is a different question; don't know if anyone has asked it before.

I could totally make a forged MIM-pattern part...I just don't think there is a market. Personally, I don't think the difference in look between the two is night and day as some have suggested. I honestly can't tell the difference unless the two styles are next to each other.

Anyway, the cost in raw case hardened material and to retool/manufacture the forged parts using the CNC would be approx. $200/set. Let me know if there is any interest.

 

[muddocktor]

I looked this afternoon as a matter of fact and I did find a replacement trigger listed (but OOS) at Brownells. It is a trigger kit for current production K/L/N/X frame revolvers and is priced at $114.99. The description of it says "EDM and CNC machined from a solid billet of tool steel, with a spring steel trigger lever." I didn't find any forged hammers though.