OP
2001gmc
Member
Sounds like a blast. Nice looking shotgun.
Shield 40 Mishap
- Thread starter 2001gmc
- Start date
ginzo
Member
BillK01
Member
Any updates on gmc's replacement gun yet?
ginzo
Member
I can send him a picture of my 2 if it will help?
ginzo
Member
This is unacceptable, IMO. WTH has happened to S&W's customer service?
bronconagurski
Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2014
- Messages
- 183
- Reaction score
- 48
That is unbelievable. I would raise Cain so much they would send it just to get rid of me.
Wagonmaster
Member
Been reading this Thread with much interest since I'm considering purchasing a Shield 40 the LGD has in stock for $439 but after 2001gmc's trouble I'm being just a little hesitant now.
It was stated by those looking at his blown up gun that the shell might have broken in half and in a very straight line. Concerning the Federal shells, I just recently purchased a couple boxes of Federal 9mm 124 gr Hydra-Shock JHP and just remembered I wondered why the shell casings have an indented ring around the case just about where the base of the bullet would be. The regular Federal 115 gr round nose don't have this ring .
Could this have caused 2001gmc's blow up, and even though I'm only using the 9mm rounds should I be concerned with this indented ring around the cases? I'll probably flinch every time I fire one of these Hydra-Shock now (I haven't been to the range since I purchased the 2 boxes to try them yet). Oh, my 9mm is a Kahr CM9 I purchased new about 1 year ago.
It was stated by those looking at his blown up gun that the shell might have broken in half and in a very straight line. Concerning the Federal shells, I just recently purchased a couple boxes of Federal 9mm 124 gr Hydra-Shock JHP and just remembered I wondered why the shell casings have an indented ring around the case just about where the base of the bullet would be. The regular Federal 115 gr round nose don't have this ring .
Could this have caused 2001gmc's blow up, and even though I'm only using the 9mm rounds should I be concerned with this indented ring around the cases? I'll probably flinch every time I fire one of these Hydra-Shock now (I haven't been to the range since I purchased the 2 boxes to try them yet). Oh, my 9mm is a Kahr CM9 I purchased new about 1 year ago.
ginzo
Member
Go to post # 334 for in this thread for my experience with Federal Guard dog ammo. You can do a search on the top of the page, just type in ginzo for name is the quickest way to find the post.
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45doubletap
Member
I've had the same exact the happen that you mention with the indented ring around the shell casing! Nobody had an answer as to what it could've been? The ammo was .40 Federal HST and was carrying in a 40c. Can't imagine what caused that? Use the same rounds on duty in a G22 and they never got deformed. After set aside a dozen or so of the indented rounds I decided to shoot them. All rounds worked fine, but it still cannot be a good thing?
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Wagonmaster
Member
Wonder how a person could reach Federal to ask them what the purpose of the indented ring is and what can happen by shooting them? 2001gmc got a hold of them with his problem so maybe he can help us here. Could be they've done this to discourage reloaders from re-using those cases.
If the indention was a little closer to the mouth of the case I'd think maybe it was a crimp to help hold the bullet in place but it looks closer to the base of the bullet to be that purpose.
When I purchased those two boxes the clerk mentioned that the local policemen used that particular round but no idea how he would know that cause surely they buy their ammo through a central purchasing department.
Oh, hope I haven't been hi-jacking 2001gmc's thread but since it involves the same brand of ammo he had trouble with I thought maybe it would help us all out.
If the indention was a little closer to the mouth of the case I'd think maybe it was a crimp to help hold the bullet in place but it looks closer to the base of the bullet to be that purpose.
When I purchased those two boxes the clerk mentioned that the local policemen used that particular round but no idea how he would know that cause surely they buy their ammo through a central purchasing department.
Oh, hope I haven't been hi-jacking 2001gmc's thread but since it involves the same brand of ammo he had trouble with I thought maybe it would help us all out.
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Could one of you post pic (if it can be seen in a picture).
I know that GLOCKs are infamous for allowing the case to bulge in the area where the feed ramp meets the chamber because there is less support there (by design, for reliability reasons). This isn't a problem with factory new ammo because the brass has not been worked to the point that it has become brittle. Reloaders shooting a GLOCK 40 or 357 Sig should buy an aftermarket barrel with better support though.
I have not compared M&P barrels to after market or GLOCK barrels. I'll try to take a look soon to see if it looks like M&Ps suffer from the same lack of support as the GLOCK barrels do.
45doubletap
Member
I will post a pic tonight or tomorrow morning...
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Rastoff
US Veteran
I'd also like to see a pic of this line to be sure what you're talking about.
This was true years ago, but Glock has updated their barrel design. New Glocks don't exhibit this and have fully supported chambers.
It should be noted that the condition of the case has little to no effect on how the gun shoots. The entire force of the shot is contained by the chamber. The brass only holds the cartridge together. So, a dent or crimp in a case doesn't affect the way a round shoots. Even if there is a "line" on the case, it won't cause a significant rise in chamber pressure.
45doubletap
Member
Bkreutz
US Veteran
Here's the pic
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That picture looks like a mismatch of case and bullet. I wouldn't shoot that on a bet. It's almost like a reverse 357SIG.
45doubletap
Member
I have dozens of them? They come out of the box normal and after carrying in my M&P 40c for weeks/months that "dent" begins to develop? I've shot several in this condition and they worked fine, but I don't like it or trust it!
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NJM15
Member
Know the feeling !
Know the feeling, before I got my mr I had a Hi Point 40 Cal carbine. I had several no rejects from the start ended with the big kahunas, a round blew in the chamber but I didn't see the casing I tried to run a wooden dowel down from the muzzle and it wouldn't go in 1 inch took off the muzzle brake and found a shell casing half way out of the barrel , the barrel was bulged just ahead of the chamber.
Sent it back to the factory and they installed a new barrel wanted my money back but they wouldn't go for that, so I took it to the range and put about 75 rounds through it with no problems at all. The only reason I bought it was to consolidate ammo between my M&P 40 and the carbine
Today me and dad were enjoying the nice weather and decided to shoot our guns. We shot the AR's and his Walther PPK 380 and his Sig 1922 pistols. I got out my Shield 40 out to shoot and was planning on putting 100 rounds down the pipe as the gun has only 150 rounds through it so far with about 10 Fail to ejects. I shot 50 UMC 180gr flawless with no issues except I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. So I got this box of Federal 180gr High Shock JHP. I load up 7 rounds bam bam boom on the 3rd round all I seen was a flash and got 3 small burns and where something hit under my eye and blood was running down my face. My hands were numb and just couldn't believe what had happened. Well it appears that my shield I guess you could say blew up in my hands. The mag flew out on the ground and I couldn't find the remaining ammo that was in the mag. There are 4 more rounds somewhere up in the hay field. What do you guys think about this and should I email Smith&Wesson and send them the pics or just call them first?
Know the feeling, before I got my mr I had a Hi Point 40 Cal carbine. I had several no rejects from the start ended with the big kahunas, a round blew in the chamber but I didn't see the casing I tried to run a wooden dowel down from the muzzle and it wouldn't go in 1 inch took off the muzzle brake and found a shell casing half way out of the barrel , the barrel was bulged just ahead of the chamber.
Sent it back to the factory and they installed a new barrel wanted my money back but they wouldn't go for that, so I took it to the range and put about 75 rounds through it with no problems at all. The only reason I bought it was to consolidate ammo between my M&P 40 and the carbine
The indented ring I believe is intentional. It prevents bullet setback in ammo. I have seen this on magnum rounds too to prevent bullets setting back in revolvers under recoil.
I'm not sure what it does for brass longevity. I used to load 44mag and 357mag quite a bit and never had such a case fail.
None of my 45acp brass has it and I haven't really looked through the pile of 9MM brass I have in cans downstairs to see how many may have this crimp. For factory fresh ammo, I wouldn't worry about it. It may be a problem after a number of reloads but even then, I never saw it on the really high pressure stuff I was loading back in those days.
Jeff
I'm not sure what it does for brass longevity. I used to load 44mag and 357mag quite a bit and never had such a case fail.
None of my 45acp brass has it and I haven't really looked through the pile of 9MM brass I have in cans downstairs to see how many may have this crimp. For factory fresh ammo, I wouldn't worry about it. It may be a problem after a number of reloads but even then, I never saw it on the really high pressure stuff I was loading back in those days.
Jeff
Rastoff
US Veteran
This is not intentional and neither is is a problem. If the round fits in the chamber, it's OK.Here's the pic
Sometimes a thing called "stacking tolerances" gets you. When loading a round, if the brass is sized just a little on the small size, and the bullet is a little on the large size, this can happen. The bullet spreads the brass a little and that ring forms as the bullet is pressed into the case.
As long as it chambers OK, and isn't overloaded with powder, it will fire just fine. The "ring" has nothing to do with how much powder is in the case. You could only tell that by disassembling the cartridge.
These are some casings from rounds I fired:
Looks bad, right? Not at all. The .40S&W generates more pressure than other rounds. So, because these were reloads, the case had already been weakened. Because the chamber takes the force, there was no hazard.
Now, sometimes a cartridge case gets mashed a little as the bullet is inserted. This crinkles the case and makes it so it won't fit in the chamber. These are not dangerous, but could get stuck in the chamber and won't extract easily.
What you pictured shouldn't be an issue.
45doubletap
Member
That has pretty much been my opinion. The neurotic OCD voices in my head are bothered by carrying ammo for self defense that "appear" defective, or just plain odd. But I've shot them no prob. Only happens with Federal? Thanks for the info! Much appreciated!
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Wagonmaster
Member
Here's the pic
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From what I can see in those pictures it looks like some sort of dent in only one side of the cartridge. The crimp I'm concerned with looks kind of like a knurled line completely around the case, which as was stated, may be just to keep to bullet from seating any deeper in the case. And all the cases look the same in both boxes I purchased fresh right out of the box before being loaded into the mag or gun.
Maybe everything is okay with the shells as long as the chamber of the barrel is as it should be. Appreciate all the comments. I wouldn't know who to ask about my firearm questions if it weren't for all the excellent Gun Forums.
Wish I could post a picture but being as far behind in technology as I am I don't have a digital camera to be able to do so. Sorry.
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TailRunner
Member
So, am I understanding the blowup of the 40 Shield was part of a broken casing lodged (reload?) in the barrel, a second round chambered then when fired, the Shield blew up?
ginzo
Member
sherrill15
Member
They won't talk to you if you tell them you were shooting reloads.
OP
2001gmc
Member
They will tell you to send them in to be looked at. Then they will email or call you back and tell you they were reloads.
Federal Premium Ammunition - Contact Us
Contact them with it. I'd like to know there response myself.
Wagonmaster
Member
Got an e-mail off to Federal. We'll see what they say about the knurled indent or crimp on brand new cases. Will post their response.
ginzo
Member
They didn't tell me anything, they just sent replacements that did the same exact thing, sorry if I'm repeating this but I still didn't like them, sent them down range, they all fired and I changed to another brand. NEVER to return again!
BlueOvalBandit
Member
knurled ring like the middle?
It's called a cannelure, it's there by intent. The idea is it prevent setback and it is why you see it on premium SD/duty ammo, that often gets rechambered multiple times.
Cannelures come in various ways, sometimes it's a smooth ring other times it's knurled. Depends on manufacturer.
