Shield 40mm Shooting low/left

[Rastoff]

I just shot my M&P Shield 40s&w at the range today, and I noticed that it was shooting low to the left.

The question that no one has asked is, did you shoot the gun while standing or did you shoot it off a bench rest? If you didn't shoot it off a rest, you don't know if it's you or the gun.

Now, none of this information has been mentioned in this thread so, this is a complete guess. But, I'll bet you shot while standing and you're a right hand shooter. Am I correct?

I'm no expert, but let me ask you all this.... Why would it be that the Shield shoots low and to the left for several people, but my (and their) other handguns shoot spot on? I shoot 357 LCR out of a 2in barrel which has way more recoil with no problem at all.

This is an excellent question and I think I can answer it at least a little.

The trigger on the M&P line of guns is usually a little stiffer than other guns. The grip is also unique. Combine those two things together and it's not surprising that many shooters shoot the Shield low/left even if they shoot other guns OK. It is almost never a recoil related issue.

I've had the good fortune to train several new shooters. I've noticed a phenomena with revolvers. Most of the new women shooters I've worked with, shoot a revolver, double action, better than a pistol in single action. Most would think the long DA pull would be more difficult than the short SA pull. I would too, but my experience, with new shooters, shows otherwise.

Now, take an experienced shooter and you get exactly the opposite; SA shoots better than DA. I believe that the answer has to do with concentration. The new shooter is able to concentrate all the way through the long DA pull because they have little experience. The experienced shooter is expecting a quick reaction and is not able to keep a smooth pull through the long DA pull.

Expand this to the M&P and I think it's mostly due to the stiff trigger. We're used to better triggers and we just tend to flinch a tiny bit just before the sear releases.

It has been my experience that the vast majority of shooters claiming low/left groups are able to fix it through training and practice. However, go ahead and move your sights. If it's you, moving the sights won't fix it.

 

[Well Armed]

The question that no one has asked is, did you shoot the gun while standing or did you shoot it off a bench rest? If you didn't shoot it off a rest, you don't know if it's you or the gun.

Now, none of this information has been mentioned in this thread so, this is a complete guess. But, I'll bet you shot while standing and you're a right hand shooter. Am I correct?



This is an excellent question and I think I can answer it at least a little.

The trigger on the M&P line of guns is usually a little stiffer than other guns. The grip is also unique. Combine those two things together and it's not surprising that many shooters shoot the Shield low/left even if they shoot other guns OK. It is almost never a recoil related issue.

I've had the good fortune to train several new shooters. I've noticed a phenomena with revolvers. Most of the new women shooters I've worked with, shoot a revolver, double action, better than a pistol in single action. Most would think the long DA pull would be more difficult than the short SA pull. I would too, but my experience, with new shooters, shows otherwise.

Now, take an experienced shooter and you get exactly the opposite; SA shoots better than DA. I believe that the answer has to do with concentration. The new shooter is able to concentrate all the way through the long DA pull because they have little experience. The experienced shooter is expecting a quick reaction and is not able to keep a smooth pull through the long DA pull.

Expand this to the M&P and I think it's mostly due to the stiff trigger. We're used to better triggers and we just tend to flinch a tiny bit just before the sear releases.

It has been my experience that the vast majority of shooters claiming low/left groups are able to fix it through training and practice. However, go ahead and move your sights. If it's you, moving the sights won't fix it.

Just out of curiosity, whether it is me or it's not, if I'm consistently shooting low/left groups, why wouldn't adjusting the sites to account for my personal physical attributes fix the problem? Why should I adjust to fit the gun instead of adjusting the gun to fit me aka how I naturally would hold the grip, pull the trigger, ect by adjusting the sites..

I'm no expert, so I'm just wondering what's the logic behind it.

 

[PastureOfMuppets]

Just out of curiosity, whether it is me or it's not, if I'm consistently shooting low/left groups, why wouldn't adjusting the sites to account for my personal physical attributes fix the problem? Why should I adjust to fit the gun instead of adjusting the gun to fit me aka how I naturally would hold the grip, pull the trigger, ect by adjusting the sites..

I'm no expert, so I'm just wondering what's the logic behind it.

Because you will have to do the same thing with the next gun you shoot, or the next gun you buy and the one after that and after that...


... also, it would mean you are pulling the trigger wrong and you would never be consistently accurate.

Analogy: If you drove a car and always drifted to the left, would changing the car to drift to the right be a good fix, or should the driver learn to drive straight?

 

[Rastoff]

Just out of curiosity, whether it is me or it's not, if I'm consistently shooting low/left groups, why wouldn't adjusting the sites to account for my personal physical attributes fix the problem? Why should I adjust to fit the gun instead of adjusting the gun to fit me aka how I naturally would hold the grip, pull the trigger, ect by adjusting the sites..

I'm no expert, so I'm just wondering what's the logic behind it.

This is an excellent question and deserves some discussion.

First, the gun must be shot from a rest to determine if the gun is off. Without removing the human element, you'll never know if it's you or the gun. If the gun is broken, or not manufactured properly, wouldn't you want to know? There have been instances of barrels being made wrong.

Second, this is not usually a gun fit issue, but a flinch issue. If you're flinching then adjusting the sights won't cure it. It will become clear if it's you by shooting from a rest.

Third, part of this issue is elevation. The M&P can only be adjusted easily for windage. To raise the point of impact, the front sight must be filed down. This is a one way trip. Once this adjustment is made you can't go back. If the issue is due to the shooter, rather than the gun, it will change as you become more familiar with the gun. That will require a new front sight as time goes by.

Look, I'm just relating what I've seen time and time again. Like I said, there are cases where the gun was defective and repaired by S&W. I'm not even trying to talk you out of adjusting your sights. By all means, adjust them. If the low/left is due to shooter movement, it will still be there after adjustment.

This question of low/left comes up a lot here. The vast majority of the time it is fixed by improved trigger control. This is not speculation on my part, it's what had been posted here hundreds of times. I'm not an expert either. This is just a community of knowledge and I'm relating what I've read as well as what I've seen through personal experience.

 

[mustangman]

Just out of curiosity, whether it is me or it's not, if I'm consistently shooting low/left groups, why wouldn't adjusting the sites to account for my personal physical attributes fix the problem? Why should I adjust to fit the gun instead of adjusting the gun to fit me aka how I naturally would hold the grip, pull the trigger, ect by adjusting the sites..

I'm no expert, so I'm just wondering what's the logic behind it.

I think there's more logic in training and learning to shoot a gun correctly than taking a perfectly good gun and making it flawed to fix a flaw in ones shooting. I too was shooting low/left the first time I took my Shield out, but after reading everything about it on here, I worked on ME, and now I don't have that problem. With a lot of practice, it becomes second nature, you don't think, you just do.

 

[RobzGuns]

... and... If one takes the shooter out of the equation and realizes it's them and not the handgun, if this also happens with the next gun they purchase later on, they'll (hopefully) have a better understanding of what they can do to correct it, rather than NEEDING to modifying every pistol they buy.

I've mostly seen this type of thread posted by people who've changed trigger platforms, going from SA to DAO, or SA to Striker, or even DAO to Striker. I've also seen it posted by people changing from a FS pistol down to a smaller (Compact or Subcompact) platform, where the 'Trigger-to Back Strap' distance is radically different. This can throw off a person's trigger press and cause the shooter to twist the pistol during the trigger press... resulting in the 'Left' portion of the Low-Left syndrome. This trigger-to-backstrap difference seems to be why many models now come with interchangeable backstraps... Not to make the pistol 'feel better', but to change the trigger-to-backstrap distance and allow a straighter (straight rearward) trigger press.

[Edit to add] When I write DAO, I mean True Revolver Style DAO (full travel trigger and hammer), not what manufactures claim to be DAO. Hence my listing Striker Fire separately from DAO.