Shield 9mm vs a pocket 380 just got interesting

RussC

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My Shield 9mm was too big for pocket concealment so I switched to a Taurus 380 at half the weight.

I figured I would sacrifice ballistics for comfort moving down to a 380 round until now.

The Lehigh round from the Youtube videos I have watched has made the 380 round a very viable option for concealment. The penetration and damage in ballistic gel tests is nothing less than impressive.

Looks like the pocket 380 found a home in my pocket.

I still enjoy shooting my Shield but I now have comfort and knockdown loaded with Lehigh 380 ammo.

Russ
 
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I used to like .380s, but the ammo (even the cheap range fodder) is more expensive than 9mm... AND... every single time there's an 'Ammo Shortage' scare, it seems to be the first to disappear (and one of the last calibers to reappear).

Obviously, with any decision in what to carry, there will be SOME kind of a trade-off. Load up on as much Lehigh as you can find. :)
 
Have you tried to shoot it yet? I have heard some guns did not like it so I have not ordered any yet for my wife's 380.
 
I'd make sure the Lehigh ammo cycles in your Taurus. There are numerous reports of FTF with this ammo in the TCP .380 (including my own experiences with multiple TCP pistols). The "ShootingtheBull" Youtube review of the ammo worked in his Taurus, but your mileage may vary with each individual weapon as did mine. If the Lehigh ammo doesn't work, you could try the Federal HydraShok or the Precision One ammo (if in stock). They had good results in the TCP .380 I also just saw the new video review of the Federal HST .380 ammo, and it didn't perform well in the pocket .380 which was disappointing since I love that ammo for 9mm carry.
 
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PDQcE-1T40#t=14[/ame]
Just recently watched that video and would like to test some Lehigh ammo in my M&P 380. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any in stock.:(
I still pocket carry my Shield's but when I want something smaller my Sig P938 or M&P 380 go with me. They're pretty much the same size.
 
I look at it different. While the best most comfortable is not having a gun but having it appear instantly when needed, is impossible. So, since I'm going to carry it might as well be something I shoot and train with a lot. Cost effective, reliable through tens of thousands of rounds and has plenty of aftermarket support. This leaves 9, 40, 45 in HK, Glock and Sig, S&W as well.

The way people are going about carrying soon 22lr mini revolvers will be a burden to carry
 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PDQcE-1T40#t=14
Just recently watched that video and would like to test some Lehigh ammo in my M&P 380. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any in stock.:(
I still pocket carry my Shield's but when I want something smaller my Sig P938 or M&P 380 go with me. They're pretty much the same size.

ArnDog

Thanks for the video.

I am shooting Lehigh through a Taurus 380 which has a shorter barrel than the Glock in the video. I will never get nor do I desire 27 inches of penetration. Anything over 16 inches per FBI runs the risk of traveling clean through the assailant and hitting an innocent bystandard.

The wound cavity on the star shaped bullet is very impressive and from a pocket 380 the bullet stops just before the critical over penetration of 16 inches.

Russ
 
I tried ordering from Lehigh, at first they were sold out, signed up to be notified, got the notification, tried to order, with a flat rate of $5 shipping, they would only let me buy one box. I'll wait till I can get at least two.
 
I received two boxes from Clark's I believe. I just googled it and got their name. I could have gotten as much as I wanted. I haven't tried it in my tcp yet. I do really like the tcp though especially for $175. This is my work carry. Weekends and nights I carry my 340pd. It's too expensive to damage at work. It may be a couple weeks before I try it. Let us know how it works.
 
I just happened to see a video last night of someone testing this - it might have been 9mm - and it over penetrated every time, once through two blocks of gel, three milk jugs full of water and even had enough energy to chip the paint in a steel target.
 
I just happened to see a video last night of someone testing this - it might have been 9mm - and it over penetrated every time, once through two blocks of gel, three milk jugs full of water and even had enough energy to chip the paint in a steel target.

Very handy if you're ever attacked by a roving gang of gelatin and milk jugs...:rolleyes:
 
Since I started carry my shield AIWB with a sticky holster I stopped carrying the P238 in the pocket. Hoping I find I have no more use for pocket carry in a few months and then sell of the 380.
 
Take a look at the Precision One 380 XTP rounds. Great penetration and expansion. In every test, those LeHigh rounds over penetrate and don't expand at all. Leaving nothing more than an ice pick wound. Nice if that's all you have and you're trying to shoot through glass or car sheet metal but definitely wouldn't be my choice if I had to carry a 380.


-Mike


www.precisiononeammunition.com
 
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My Shield 9mm was too big for pocket concealment

It depends on the pants. I don't pocket carry the Shield because it's new and I don't have a pocket holster for it yet, but I do once in a while pocket carry an XDs in an Alabama Holster and its 2oz heavier than the Shield, and I do fine pocket carrying it. Not exactly carry & forget, like my LCP .380, but its not at all uncomfortable.
 
Take a look at the Precision One 380 XTP rounds. Great penetration and expansion. In every test, those LeHigh rounds over penetrate and don't expand at all. Leaving nothing more than an ice pick wound. Nice if that's all you have and you're trying to shoot through glass or car sheet metal but definitely wouldn't be my choice if I had to carry a 380.


-Mike


www.precisiononeammunition.com

Mike

I have a box of Precision One for my Taurus TCP. I figure I could stagger Lehigh and Precision One in my TCP and I should be covered.

:) Russ
 
Take a look at the HPR 90 gr JHP. It's loaded with the XTP bullet and made it to the last round in the shootingthebull tests. Made in the USA and supposed to be 100% hand inspected. I found it in stock locally for $32 per box of 50.
 
For pocket carry I like my wifes LCP , I put a stronger recoil spring in & a Houge grip , made it a little more controllable. I watched the vid & I also would be worried about over penetration.
 
I recently purchased a Sig p938. It is lighter than my 9c, is still 9mm, and is small enough to pocket carry if I wish. I looked at .380's when I was looking at something lighter to carry. I was directed towards the Sig 938 and I don't regret my purchase.
The plus side is the fact that the darling husband doesn't have to reload a different caliber since he already reloads 9mm as well as .45 acp and is looking at reloading .223/.556 for my AR's.
 
I used to like .380s, but the ammo (even the cheap range fodder) is more expensive than 9mm... AND... every single time there's an 'Ammo Shortage' scare, it seems to be the first to disappear (and one of the last calibers to reappear).

Obviously, with any decision in what to carry, there will be SOME kind of a trade-off. Load up on as much Lehigh as you can find. :)

My experience exactly -- so I began reloading .380. 100 grn over Titegroup in range casings costs be about 8-9 cents. There are Hydra Shoks in the BG when its working, but at the range it gets reloads and seems to be very happy with either.
 
I'm waiting to see some of the new Federal HST .380 rounds on the shelf. I love it in the 9mm and 45ACP, so I am guessing that it will be my choice for .380 as well.
 
I'm waiting to see some of the new Federal HST .380 rounds on the shelf. I love it in the 9mm and 45ACP, so I am guessing that it will be my choice for .380 as well.

They expand well but did not penetrate very well because of the expansion, here is a test with them: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhByLwyvGpA[/ame]
 
@bootman...
Sorry if I missed it, but what does an extended Thumb Safety for the Shield have to do with .380 SD ammo?
 
For pocket carry I like my wifes LCP , I put a stronger recoil spring in & a Houge grip , made it a little more controllable. I watched the vid & I also would be worried about over penetration.
,
I want to thank RussC for starting this thread , it made me look up the ammo I carry in the LCP.
Remington UMC 380 Auto 88 Grain JHP
I was able to find 2 good videos one was from the guy as the one posted according to his test it failed but in the other it opened up & the penetration was right on.

,
My question to anyone is they used different kinds of gel ,
the one where the round worked as I would hope was a tan color that you could not see through.
Are they the same other than the color ?
 
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The 380 can take care of business!!

Russ, I feel the same way. I am a NRA instructor with over 35+ years of teaching-- carry what you can shoot. Most of my students carry 380 autos, and with confidence. I say carry the biggest gun you can handle, and during the colder months I usually will carry my shield or compact 9, but when the warmer weather get here, the bodyguard 380 just drops into my cargo shorts and I keep a extra mag or two just in case. I have no reservations about the 380 acp, especially with todays ammo, believe me, if you aim for center mass, you will take care of business. I did a ballistic test using calibrated gel several weeks ago on the new Federal HST 380 round. I have been real pleased with the HST line, their 9mm, 40 and 45acp is nothing short of fantastic in all bullet weights. My results were different than a review on the internet. Last week I repeated the test three times firing 5 rounds into bare gel and 5 into four layers of denim. My results were the same as the first time, that is; 10-10-1/2 in bare gel, 12-13 inches with four layers of denim. The gel was tested for calibration and was "on the money" The same gel was used to test some Federal HST 124 gr standard pressure, they all came in at 15 inches, with and without denim. The firearm used was the shield, one of my favorite 9mm carry pistols. The test was repeated two more times with the same results. The expansion was typical HST, and I can not complain with 10+ inches of penetration. I know everybody has to make their minds up about the firearm, ammo, holster etc they carry, but being able to carry all the time, in all weather conditions, jeans, shorts, dress pants etc is the key. I plan on more testing of Federals new HST 380, but from what I have seen it is a good load. I will take the 12-18 inches with a grain of salt, a good solid hit with 10+ inches and well aimed will stop the bad guy. A retired cop friend of mine hit a bad guy, a real big bad guy with two speer gold dot 380s in the chest, his body was donated to the local medical school!! If I remember, the gold dot did not get real high marks from some reviews on you tube, but I will take this kind of performance, any day of the week. My friend walked in on a robbery at a local gas station while off duty, he was carrying a ruger LCP in his pocket!! The bottom line, carry your firearm ALL the time and keep your eyes open. Stay safe to all!!!!!
 
Have you tried to shoot it yet? I have heard some guns did not like it so I have not ordered any yet for my wife's 380.

Harry

I have not tried the Lehigh in my Taurus TCP. At $1.60 per round I will not sight my gun in with the ammo.

Russ
 
Russ, I feel the same way. I am a NRA instructor with over 35+ years of teaching-- carry what you can shoot. Most of my students carry 380 autos, and with confidence. I say carry the biggest gun you can handle, and during the colder months I usually will carry my shield or compact 9, but when the warmer weather get here, the bodyguard 380 just drops into my cargo shorts and I keep a extra mag or two just in case. I have no reservations about the 380 acp, especially with todays ammo, believe me, if you aim for center mass, you will take care of business. I did a ballistic test using calibrated gel several weeks ago on the new Federal HST 380 round. I have been real pleased with the HST line, their 9mm, 40 and 45acp is nothing short of fantastic in all bullet weights. My results were different than a review on the internet. Last week I repeated the test three times firing 5 rounds into bare gel and 5 into four layers of denim. My results were the same as the first time, that is; 10-10-1/2 in bare gel, 12-13 inches with four layers of denim. The gel was tested for calibration and was "on the money" The same gel was used to test some Federal HST 124 gr standard pressure, they all came in at 15 inches, with and without denim. The firearm used was the shield, one of my favorite 9mm carry pistols. The test was repeated two more times with the same results. The expansion was typical HST, and I can not complain with 10+ inches of penetration. I know everybody has to make their minds up about the firearm, ammo, holster etc they carry, but being able to carry all the time, in all weather conditions, jeans, shorts, dress pants etc is the key. I plan on more testing of Federals new HST 380, but from what I have seen it is a good load. I will take the 12-18 inches with a grain of salt, a good solid hit with 10+ inches and well aimed will stop the bad guy. A retired cop friend of mine hit a bad guy, a real big bad guy with two speer gold dot 380s in the chest, his body was donated to the local medical school!! If I remember, the gold dot did not get real high marks from some reviews on you tube, but I will take this kind of performance, any day of the week. My friend walked in on a robbery at a local gas station while off duty, he was carrying a ruger LCP in his pocket!! The bottom line, carry your firearm ALL the time and keep your eyes open. Stay safe to all!!!!!

Frank

Thanks

Russ
 
Or.....

I used to like .380s, but the ammo (even the cheap range fodder) is more expensive than 9mm... AND... every single time there's an 'Ammo Shortage' scare, it seems to be the first to disappear (and one of the last calibers to reappear).

Obviously, with any decision in what to carry, there will be SOME kind of a trade-off. Load up on as much Lehigh as you can find. :)

Or, take up reloading.:)
 
After 100 rounds of 380 Winchester ball ammo, 25 rounds of hollow point Precision One, and 3 rounds of Lehigh the Taurus TCP was flawless.


I wish I could shoot more Lehigh but the ammo is expensive and I split the cost of one box with a friend so I only had 10 rounds before a trip to the range.

Russ
 
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