Shotgun length limitations...

[amazingflapjack]

Hi everyone-I know (?) that shotgun barrels have to be 18", but is there an overall limitation as well? I'm thinking about cutting down an old 12 gauge to 18 1/4 and then cutting the stock off , leaving just the pistol grip. Any restrictions or suggestions? Thanks, Flapjack.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

My understanding is that in addition to the barrel length of 18", the OAL of the entire shotgun must be no less than 26". Since the 18" barrel length is critical (a fraction less and you're in violation) most people keep it at 18 1/2 and the length over 26". And I believe this max length, with folding stocks, is measured with the stock extended. I would suggest checking with a local LEO for state regulations as well.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

This is important. You measure the length from the face of the breech in closed position to the muzzel. You do NOT measure from the barrel extension!!!!! Very important!!!!! With the breech closed insert an 18" dowel-if any shows above the barrel-you're too short.

 

[SOFMatchstaff]

My suggestion, cut the barrels to 18.5" as described by Cajunlawyer, play with it for a while in that configuration. Its easier to handle and control a short shotty than a really long 12 bore pistol, besides, when you shoulder it you can hit stuff, pistol style, not so much.. I've seen some real abortions show up to shoot a match( Mossberg intimidator, vindicator or molester, or sumsuch) and the user usually goes home bruised or bloody. Never try to shoot a pistol grip buckshot load over the hood of a M-715 when your schnozz is ANY where near the back of the gun. I wish I'd had a camera running.

Any how, If you just have to, make absolutely sure of the final measurements, remember Ruby Ridge?? Probably started with the same question, or intent. I have a 23" SKB SxS and its handy, plus I can shoot skeet with it rather well..

suggestions off.

 

[kudzu3]

26" minimum total length.

 

[kudzu3]

It is possible to obtain a permit (license) to have a shorter gun.

 

[2152hq]

Fed minimum is 18" bbl,,, 26" OAL.
I think some states have different minimums, so check before hacking away.

Also make sure a pistol grip shotgun (no shoulder stock) is legal even if the 26" OAL is met. I have a feeling there are state or local laws prohibiting them or at least placing them into concealable firearm catagory.
If the shotgun has a folding stock, the OAL is measured with the stock in the collapsed position.

I'd stay outside those minimums if they do apply in you state. 18.5" bbl is short enough and there will be no question about a few .000" difference between legal or not if that ever becomes an issue w/one cut to 18 inches.

I cut 'riot' guns to 20" bbl length. Plenty handy enough.

 

[CW Spook]

Err on the side of caution. Remember Randy Weaver.....

 

[mc5aw]

For the price of a $5.00 tax stamp, you can go the AOW route and keep things really short.

 

[SOFMatchstaff]

the $5 tax route is only on factory produced weapons. If you paper it and do the work yourself its $200.

 

[cowart]

It is possible to obtain a permit (license) to have a shorter gun.

Yes, for example the "Serbu Shorty" - see
Super Shorty

 

[Alpo]

It's kinda hard to get it too short, overall, if your barrels are long enough.

I just measured my Ithaca 37. 20 1/2 inch barrel, and it was 27 inches to the back of the trigger guard. No buttstock at all, and was 27 inches. Take that extra 2 1/2 inches of barrel away and you only need 1 1/2 inches of buttstock back of the receiver to be legal 26 overall.

This has eleven inch barrrels, and is 20 inches overall. So if it had the legal minimum of 18, it would be 27 overall, and still be legal, even with the butt cut down.

 

[bushmaster1313]

There are pistol grips for the Remington 870 and the Ithaca 37.

My favorite configuration is a 12.5" LOP plus an 18.5" barrel
Total is about 36" but it's perfect for me:
Here are two
Blond Remington 870 Wingmaster
Brown Ithaca 37

 

[amazingflapjack]

Thanks all!!

Plenty of good info, and some things to consider. I should have mentioned that my main purpose for this gun is to have inside a vehicle, so size is a big concern. Please keep the comments coming, and thanks again. Flapjack.

 

[mc5aw]

Sof is correct. An AOW must be born that way to qualify for the $5 stamp. Anything altered afterward is a SBR, and requires the $200 stamp. The obvious advantage to the AOW is size and tax fee ... the downside is a low shot capacity. It makes a fearsome tool.

 

[NYlakesider]

QUOTE=kudzu3;136567614]It is possible to obtain a permit (license) to have a shorter gun.[/QUOTE]

QUOTE=mc5aw;136567652]For the price of a $5.00 tax stamp, you can go the AOW route and keep things really short.[/QUOTE]


Your state laws can and may make impossible to do. I live in the people’s republic of NY and you cannot do this, I know there are other states also. Check out the laws where you live!

 

[Doug M.]

And if you travel across state lines, you could be unhappy with certain outcomes. In some states, you can't have a loaded long gun in a vehicle, even cased in the trunk, too - the inconsistencies are a pain. As for the pistol grip, I have never met anyone who teaches serious defensive use of a shotgun who advocates them. Darned unpleasant to shoot, and more difficult. You might find a second handgun in a location you can deal with while seated and belted in to be more useful.

 

[GKC]

Yes, for example the "Serbu Shorty" - see
Super Shorty

I've always wanted one of those...no real or even rational reason why, just wanted to own one, especially now that they also make them in 20 ga. According to my LGS, the sheriff in my county will sign off on them, so I could actually get one. The only thing really stopping me at this point is do I really want to pay $700 or so for a shotgun that I will very likely never shoot...or very seldom, anyway. But then, I have one heck of a lot more than that invested in a motorcycle that I never ride either.

I have also read that if you can't get your local sheriff's approval, you can form a corporation and have the corporation own it, which doesn't require approval. (Not sure why.)

 

[GKC]

I should have mentioned that my main purpose for this gun is to have inside a vehicle, so size is a big concern.

If that is your intended purpose, have you considered the Governor? At distances like those inside the car, to be used to repel a car jacker, for example, the 00 or 000 loads from the .410 can be very effective (although not much further away than that.) The Governor also shoots .45 ACP and .45 Colt. The Governor will be far more maneuverable and you won't have to jump through any hoops to buy/own one...unless they are not on your state's purchase list, or something.

 

[GatorFarmer]

You going to shoot it in/ from your vehicle or just carry it so as to be handy? Try Galls.com and you can get an in car shotgun rack meant for a squad card. A conventional stock works.

You might want a gunsmith to cut the bbl. You will want it crowned and a new bead added.

 

[amazingflapjack]

Good stuff guys, anything else? Thanks, Flapjack.

 

[sigp220.45]

I put a Hogue pistol grip like this one my 870. I needed it to fit into a small space on my vehicle, and this did the trick:

It's not bad at all to shoot with reduced recoil 8 pellet 00 Buck. Full power stuff stings a bit, but it is still very controllable. I wouldn't want to be on the other end of it, for sure.

 

[amazingflapjack]

Thanks everyone!!

 

[forresth]

MI is another state that outlaws SBS, and even have their own variation on the definition of one.

the guns that come with pistol stocks from the factory (thinking Mossberg JIC series and the like, not the Serbu) don't quite meet the definition of a shotgun (the part about being shoulder fired), so the thinking is those can be cut down to 16" without paperwork. sounds like a whole lotta potential headache to me for a barrel just 2" shorter

 

[DeadAye]

This is important. You measure the length from the face of the breech in closed position to the muzzel. You do NOT measure from the barrel extension!!!!! Very important!!!!! With the breech closed insert an 18" dowel-if any shows above the barrel-you're too short.

I've read that several times and still don't get it

My brother-in-law had a sawed off shot gun. They measured 20 inches from the firing pin (is that the *face of the breech*?) and cut the barrel. He got stopped for DUI and the shot gun confiscated. The FEDs measure from the end of the longest shell that the gun will take - In other words the length of *the barrel* DOESN'T include the receiver.

He spent 5 years in a minimum security federal penitentiary in Millington, TN for having that gun.
The good news was that while he was in the pen the time ran out on his driver's license suspension for the DUI....

*They* seem to take that fairly seriously, btw.

 

[JcMack]

UP FRONT: I am not gonna argue with anybody. I just measured my new NEF Pardner (870 copy) sold new to me at Cabelas 6 mos. ago. The specs on their WS claim 18.5" barrel. Put a tape down the empty barrel to the breach and it measured 18.5".

 

[JcMack]

I'd really like to know the correct info on this subject.

 

[forresth]

I've read that several times and still don't get it

My brother-in-law had a sawed off shot gun. They measured 20 inches from the firing pin (is that the *face of the breech*?) and cut the barrel. He got stopped for DUI and the shot gun confiscated. The FEDs measure from the end of the longest shell that the gun will take - In other words the length of *the barrel* DOESN'T include the receiver.

He spent 5 years in a minimum security federal penitentiary in Millington, TN for having that gun.
The good news was that while he was in the pen the time ran out on his driver's license suspension for the DUI....

*They* seem to take that fairly seriously, btw.

he either got royally screwed or you aren't hearing the whole story.

 

[JcMack]

he either got royally screwed or you aren't hearing the whole story.

Please don't take an issue or turn this into some kind of argument. DeadAye always knows what he's talking about. I did say please. IT'S A REALLY SERIOUS ISSUE TO ME and a lot of people here.

Thanks in advance, Jim

 

[SOFMatchstaff]

It doesnt get any simpler or more accurate than the 3rd post in this thread!

I've Never heard of a barrel being measured from the forcing cone to the muzzle to determine a legal barrel length, sound reckless and theres a BS factor some where in that story on one side or the other.

If its a REALLY SERIOUS ISSUE, then go to the horses mouth and ask the BATFE for the technical specs. I doubt very much if NEF is going to ship an Illegal shot gun for any reason. your measurements confirm the technique, just apply it to the weapon in question and feel confident that you are legal..