Shotgun Resurgence?

[rotor1]

Shotguns

I own 6 shotguns all 12 g. Three are semiauto, 2 are O/U Browning, and one pump- a Maverick 88 security model. The only inexpensive one is the Maverick.

For less than $200 you have a 5+1 12 gauge pump, 18 inch barrel, cylinder bore that can shoot almost anything (not
3-1/2) including slugs. In the house it stays loaded with #4 buck. Outside I might use 00 buck.

I have AR's, AK's, multiple rifles, a ton of handguns but if I have a household intruder I want my Maverick and I don't think it would take more than one shot to quell any intruder. Mossberg also sells a combo set with a security barrel and a longer barrel with a set of chokes for about $250 so if you like to shoot clays you can and switch the barrel and you have a security gun. Inexpensive and it works.

 

[rotor1]

I saw a video on both these and one of them did a face plant on the guy with the barrel because it recoiled so hard. The other one had a strap on the forearm and helped control the recoil. I wouldn't put one of these in my daughters hands unless she weighed about 190 and had man hands.

That strap is to keep your hand away from the muzzle so you don't blow it away. I am not a fan of these short non-shotguns.

 

[LT7d103]

I was in my FLGS yesterday to pickup my latest 1911 acquisition. A young couple came in looking for a 12ga pump for home defense. Sorry we don't have any was the answer. As I was leaving they were looking at a Benelli tactical autoloader. All I could think of was someones going to die and probably not the person intended... The long barreled SG was bigger than she was... I should have leaned in and said i have a nice NIB 870 at home...

 

[NavySCPO]

I'd hate to think I had to hit anything with accuracy in the middle of the night half asleep.

So this sits by my bed, Remington Tac-14 20 gauge loaded with #4 Buck, very easy to maneuver, even easier to shoot. IMHO the 20 is easier to recover for a 2nd shot than the 12, and will certainly get the job done.

 

[Echo40]

I saw a video on both these and one of them did a face plant on the guy with the barrel because it recoiled so hard. The other one had a strap on the forearm and helped control the recoil. I wouldn't put one of these in my daughters hands unless she weighed about 190 and had man hands.

The Mossberg 590 Shockwave comes chambered in .410 Bore and 20 Gauge as well as 12 Gauge. Also, there are these little rubber adapters sold by a company called Opsol which go for about $12 which allow the Shockwave to shoot 12 Gauge Mini Shells which have very little recoil.

Furthermore, as previously stated, the recoil of the Shockwave is extremely overrated and largely based on the ignorant assumption that the Shockwave has equal felt recoil to standard vertical pistol grip shotguns, which it absolutely does not because the grip angle on the Raptor grip isn't 90° like a vertical pistol grip, ergo it doesn't transfer recoil directly into the wrist.

It may look intimidating, but it's actually a lot of fun to shoot.

 

[RMcL]

Cylinder Bore 00B Patterns: Flite Control vs Power Piston

The short, cylinder bore 12 gauge pump shotgun remains the quintessential home defense choice. What many are not aware of is just how far such a shotgun can deliver 100% patterns on a torso size target. The video below is one of the better examples I've run across on practical pattern testing the limits of modern 00B loads. It appears that both loads tested are full power 9 pellet 00B.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N56wQG0dXGA&t=149s[/ame]

 

[Skeptic 9c]

My daughter is considering a Shockwave or TAC 14 for home defense.
Do you have opinions on them? There seems to be plusses and Minusses
on both of them.

I think the Mossberg 20 Gauge with the short barrel and adjustable stock would be better. I've had mine for 20+ years w/o a problem.

Mossberg Youth 500(R)/505™/510 Mini™ | O.F. Mossberg & Sons, Inc.

Geoff
Who is not fond of guns sold on looks.

 

[mscampbell2734]

The short, cylinder bore 12 gauge pump shotgun remains the quintessential home defense choice. What many are not aware of is just how far such a shotgun can deliver 100% patterns on a torso size target. The video below is one of the better examples I've run across on practical pattern testing the limits of modern 00B loads. It appears that both loads tested are full power 9 pellet 00B.

YouTube

This is one of the better videos I've seen of this.

It clearly shows the expected spread of shot as the range increases, and how much denser a pattern modern loads pattern vs just loose shot in a cup.

In the past in general shot patterns of #4 buck and larger expand at the rate of 1 inch per yard, so at 15 yards the pattern would be about 15 inches across. This limited the effective range of shotguns to about 15-17 yards for LE purposes. New loads cut that spread almost in half, allowing good patterns out to 25 yards.

HOWEVER at that distance your looking at a drop off in terminal performance because the pellets are spread out and each individual pellet is on it's own so to speak. If you expect to engage at longer ranges then you need to step up to either 000 buck or slug.

As for using birdshot at close range, anything further away then 15 feet is going to look like the photo Rastoff posted. The spread is going to greatly reduce the penetration and your NOT going to put down a determined attacker, especially if that attacker is wearing heavy clothing.

 

[Sistema1927]

The defensive/home use of shotguns is one of those topics that tend to bring forth a large amount of misinformation. This thread is no exception.

Yet, at the same time, trying to correct everyone who thinks that racking a shotgun will scare off a burglar, or that #8 shot is dandy for inside the house, or that all you need to do is point it down the hallway cause you can't miss, etc. is a fool's errand due to the fact that these are often very deeply entrenched beliefs.

 

[wrkerr]

The defensive/home use of shotguns is one of those topics that tend to bring forth a large amount of misinformation. This thread is no exception.

Yet, at the same time, trying to correct everyone who thinks that racking a shotgun will scare off a burglar, or that #8 shot is dandy for inside the house, or that all you need to do is point it down the hallway cause you can't miss, etc. is a fool's errand due to the fact that these are often very deeply entrenched beliefs.

Agreed. We carried Rem. 870's in our patrol cars, with barrels cut to 16" so they would fit in the carrier between the seats. They were loaded with #4 buck, and a butt-cuff with another 5 rds.
We had to qualify with the shotgun bi-annually, and over the years I learned a few things about this particular weapon platform. Just my opinion; what works for me.

1. Yes, you have to aim a shotgun. It's not like TV.
2. Shot loads do not penetrate deep enough against a really motivated
assailant.
3. #4 buckshot is the smallest I will carry for serious use. See #2 above.
4. The sound of racking the slide means nothing.
5. Nothing says F-U like a shotgun.

I loved the 870, but never bought one of my own. I am so old-school that I still depend on my Browning Auto 5 that I got in 1966. It never fails. Still use #4 buck.

 

[flagman1776]

The PD I worked for issued 3" 12g 000 BUCK and slugs. I had my 20" Mossberg 500 with rifle sights, rear aperture removed to form a ghost ring. It carried 8 + 1 plug what I had in a carrier. Qualification sure was fun.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Good day to All,
That sure was a fun three pages to read. There are a number of experts who have preceeded my post so I'm going with the three things I learned first:

Shotguns can mount bayonets. Holy cow! That is cool.
Remington makes a BB load for self defense and it's expensive. Not so cool. BB's are a useful shot size that has become difficult to find. Bummer.
Numerous other manufacturers are coming out with viable pump shotguns. Cool!

Things that I'd like to reiterate:
Shockwave 12 gauge not easiest thing in the world to use, but not prohibitively impossible either. Think of it as a bridge between a handgun and a shotgun.

#1 buckshot is overlooked in favor of 00 Buck or #4 Buck a lot and it's a mistake IMO.

The greatest perceived recoil I encountered was in #4 Buck and High Velocity Slug loads during my patterning of my Shockwave.

Tactical buckshot is good for Shockwave. Opsol device good too if you can find the shells. Really easy to install and remove. Both easy on the hands.

Patterning your shotgun involves more than one box of shells. I spent almost $100 in buckshot alone with my Shockwave. The results were interesting and not what I expected.

As soon as you can afford it out a light and laser on your home defense weapon(s). They help and may save you or a loved one.

 

[Chief10]

I have seen the wad in shotgun wounds-that tells me that the buckshot AND wad are taking care of business!!

 

[RMcL]

As a Southerner, I grew up hunting deer with buckshot.

Early on I learned that maximum buckshot range was the distance I could get a minimum acceptable pattern with the particular gun/choke/load combination used. That might be 20 yards or it could be 60 yards.

Your pattern board will not lie to you!

Here is one of the better examples I've seen of establishing minimum pattern = maximumum range for deer hunting. In this case a reduced recoil 8 pellet 00B load was the choice for hunting with a 14" barreled firearm. Post mortem wound damage shown was extensive for the three deer taken on this Canadian hunt.

Indeed, the lessons for buckshot defensive use as well as hunting are valid.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7shQkL8FO4&t=13s[/ame]

 

[Chief Wiggums]

Indeed, the lessons for buckshot defensive use as well as hunting are valid.

YouTube

Great video - I really enjoyed viewing this as it was relevant for SD and as well as hunting, (a model example of hunting done right)

He mentioned the provinces , curious if the Shockwave will still be legal as our Canadian brothers & sisters are facing challenging times with firearms...

 

[fredj338]

While that looks impressive, I don't believe that it relates to how that load would penetrate flesh. Wood doesn't have any give... where flesh does. Professionals do not use boards to test the penetration of a round to determine if it is a reliable stopper, they use carefully calibrated ballistics gel that simulates the properties of flesh and organs. These professionals have shown that #4 buck is the minimum load that will reliably penetrate deep enough to hit vitals and stop a threat.

I do like your "tekteecool" shotgun though. The bayonet really speaks to me!

Birdshot s gor birds. I have tested it #6 on a sdevof ribs at d1ft. None penetrated the ribcage. Then #4 buck, broke ribs & penetrated thru to the gel backing.
Most riot chokes spread about 1" per yard. So at 21ft, the 6-7" spread of birdshot isnt going to give penetration to vitals, especially if your attacker is wearing heavy clothing.

 

[AZretired]

I picked up a Mossberg 500 in 2006 after retiring. I had to turn in my Rem.870 so I needed a shotgun and the Mossy was priced right. Great shot gun like the tang safety, 5 round mag and the extra hunting tube makes it a great quail or turkey gun. It's my primary HD gun.Lies under my side of the bed at night, loaded with Federal Tactical buckshot.

 

[Drm50]

Used market glutted with $200 pump shotguns. House brands can be best value. Win, Savage and High Standard pumps good as most new on the market. Hacksaw or pipe cutter and you got HD gun. Always cut of 18.25", the extra .25" is the Devils Share ( ATF ).

 

[forrestinmathews]

Used market glutted with $200 pump shotguns. House brands can be best value. Win, Savage and High Standard pumps good as most new on the market. Hacksaw or pipe cutter and you got HD gun. Always cut of 18.25", the extra .25" is the Devils Share ( ATF ).

Measured from the bolt face to to muzzle with the action shut. We don't want any stretched tape measures. Always presume that the initial measurer will be I'll informed on how it is to be measured and try to do it from the front of the action.

 

[tops]

Used market glutted with $200 pump shotguns. House brands can be best value. Win, Savage and High Standard pumps good as most new on the market. Hacksaw or pipe cutter and you got HD gun. Always cut of 18.25", the extra .25" is the Devils Share ( ATF ).

I'm nervous and paranoid. I never cut below 18.5. Larry