Should I call S&W - Shield FTE

[jeshoffstall]

Hey guys, new M&P Shield owner here. I have always been a huge Glock fan, but just had to have a Shield for EDC once I handled one. Finally found one at an LGS two weeks ago and brought her home.

First trip to the range I was very impressed with the accuracy and shootability of this pistol. I was loading 5 rounds at a time and things were going pretty well. When I had 10 rounds left (out of 100) I loaded the mag to full capacity and had a FTE after the first shot - the first case stood up vertically in the ejection port preventing the second cartridge from loading.

So, with that weighing on my mind I went back to the range a couple of days later shooting every clip fully charged. On about the tenth clip a case failed to extract (partially remaining in the chamber) and the next round got jammed between the case and the feed ramp. I had to drop the mag to clear the malfunction.

I only ask as 2 FTEs out of 200-225 rounds did not seem terrible to me, but I read thread after thread on here about "flawless performance" for hundreds or thousands of rounds.

Should I call Smith & Wesson next week and discuss, or see if things smooth out. I want to be 100% confident in this gun so it can become my EDC.

Note: I went through a box of Federal 147 HST with no problem at all, both of the FTEs were with Remington UMC 115 ammo.

Thanks for reading my long post.

Jack

 

[MichiganScott]

Cleaned and lubed? Since both FTE happened at the end of the range session, I wonder if they were getting gummed up from residue and/or lack of lube. There is also the possibility of shooter fatigue and limp wristing the pistol.

Smith, if contacted, will probably send you a call tag and check it out to be certain that it's in spec. I think you may be a bit early for that, however.

 

[Old cop]

I agree that you may have been dealing with a dirty gun but it should still function, especially if you intend to rely on it. Next, and please accept this as constructive from an old fuddy-dutty (me), but guns do not have clips. They use magazines and you may in fact have a mag problem from what you describe but I would call S&W.

Good luck and let us know how things go.

 

[hoghunter]

I would say it is likely shooter fatigue. If there was a true issue I would expect to see the issue early and often during your session. I hate gun troubles as well. I had a FTE on my Shield the first time I used +P ammo, but that was after shooting 250+ rounds on several other guns. Next range visit I started with that ammo and no issues at all. I am chalking my single FTE issue as my grip being tired after adjusting to multiple weapons. I am a notorious limp wrister when it come to small guns because my very large/long hands prevent me from gettting a good purchase on a small frame. Just my two cents.

 

[NucPhysics]

...shooting every clip fully charged. On about the tenth clip a case failed to extract ...

Jack

Tight mag springs, especially when loading a new magazine to the max, can reduce the momentum of the slide enough to cause a failure. I hate to admit it, but I always load one round short to reduce the pressure of the top round that rides against the slide - lowered powered ammo also reduces the available energy to cycle the slide which can add to the issue. Not saying this is an OK failure and that this is the way to resolve it, just saying that a full mag with new springs (and lower powered ammo) may lead to this issue.

Mag springs do break in over time to a small degree, but don't try to just ignore the issue if it persists. Your confidence in the gun matters greatly.

Just wanted to add one thing: You said the failure happened on the first shot which is when the mag is at its fullest capacity and the pressure from the rounds in the mag on the slide are at the maximum. I don't believe there is anything wrong with the gun or your handling of the gun. Just realize that the pressure it takes to get that last round in the mag translates to being just as tight on the slide on that first shot.

 

[BigCityChief]

Please advise as to whether you have the 9MM or the .40 caliber and whether this happened with the 6 or 7 round magazine or both. Thank you sir.

 

[RobzGuns]

I agree that since it didn't happen with every single mag every time, the pistol itself is probably fine. As mentioned above, the mags do need to break in (especially the 7 round 9mm mag), but again, since it didn't happen more frequently and with regularity, it could be a slight case of shooting fatigue.

It's tough to make a reliability call after only a couple sporadic malfunctions within a couple hundred or so rounds. If it still has the same issue after a few more range sessions, give S&W CS a call and they'll make it right.

 

[jeshoffstall]

Thanks everyone. To be specific this is the 9MM shield and the first failure was on the supplied 8 round magazine (sorry for the clips comment earlier) and the second was on the supplied 7 rounder (both loaded to capacity). I did buy and extra 8 round mag at the LGS but it had no issues the few times I tried it. As I stated, no hicups when loading five at a time, so could be mag tension and some shooter fatigue. I will say that shooting 100 rounds in one session is about enough with this small grip frame.

I would like to get 200 rounds through it with no malfunctions before I am comfortable with it as an EDC. I will try a couple or more range sessions before I call S&W. I appreciate everyone's input!!

Jack

 

[skip4309]

Long story short. Brand new Shield...not cleaned. Had (one) FTE after about 50-60 rds. Shooting cheap 'Monarch' steel cased ammo. All mags loaded to capacity. Since then have cleaned and lubed weapon. Since then I've shot approx 250 rds (mostly WWB 124gr 9mm NATO) and some Hornaday 115gr Critical Defense ammo and not one problem since then. Shoot some good ammo with fully loaded mags. Be sure to number or mark mags...you might have a mag problem. Just my 2 cents worth. Good Luck!!

 

[Squash15B]

FTE on 9mm Shield

I too had an FTE on my Shield after the gun had 50-60 rounds of UMC 115 gr FMJ through it. Cleaned it, and lubed it with military LSA Teflon and it didn't jam after that. However, when I carry it, it will have premium ammo with nickel coated brass and will be well lubed and clean. Also in addition to that, skateboard tape was added to the grip to make sure my large hands don't slip. With those changes, I feel comfortable that it'll work if needed.

 

[Doug M.]

Note: I went through a box of Federal 147 HST with no problem at all, both of the FTEs were with Remington UMC 115 ammo.

Jack

*
To the folks who asked if this was a 9 or .40, slap yourself. The description of the ammo gives the answer.

Jack: some thoughts to consider. First, you are in break-in, and this is a mechanical device. Second, you may have become tired. Third, while the UMC is not junk ammo, it also does not have the quality control of a premium service ammo such as the HST or other duty loads. You have a modest increase in the chances of a problem. I have had a couple of pistols that would go a long time without any trouble with duty ammo, but most practice ammo would cause issues. (I got too frustrated with lower tier ammo and now generally stick with Blank Hills or ASYM even for practice. No more problems.)

Cleaning, IMHO, is generally over rated, but lube is essential. I'd be bent out of shape if a quality pistol required cleaning to be reliable; many years ago I heard of a top shooter who said that if a gun won't work dirty, there is something wrong with it. (Note that Wilson Combat is clear that you are not to disassemble for any reason a new pistol from them until it has 300-500 rounds through it.) Sometimes during the break-in period you can get little bits of crud from the initial wearing in, which might justify cleaning the gun at about the stage you are at. My guess is that the first three things I suggest are the issues you consider. After initial break-in and the associated cleaning, which is the stage at which you have probably arrived, I'd be really appalled if you could not go at least 1000 and preferably 3000 rounds without cleaning. (In the AR platform, less than 10K without cleaning is a sign that something is really wrong.)

 

[Maddmax]

It's new and needs breaking in. Shoot it and clean it after each session. Use different ammo and see what it likes best. Mine eats anything and everything has over 3000 rounds through it. Only problems I had at first was just being overly dirty. I like pushing them past the point of no return when getting a new weapon dirty just so I know how much they WILL take. Normally,I clean after each shooting session once broke in.

 

[jeshoffstall]

Update: Back to the range today with a clean and freshly lubed (per the manual) Shield. Third magazine, 15th round, stovepipes - vertically and upside down keeping the slide from moving forward. I clear it and shoot another 60 rounds or so with no problems.

I then load a magazine, seat it in the pistol, release the slide and nothing. Upon examination I noticed that the slide did not fully go into battery. I pushed it forward and was able to fire.

I just have a pit in my stomach after waiting so long for this pistol - it is accurate, easy to carry, seems well made and is priced well. I am just extremely disappointed that I can not trust it.

I have thousands of rounds through Glock 9mm and 40 and have never felt this level of frustration with any of them.

I will be calling Smith & Wesson Monday to see what options I have, until them the 642 goes back in service.

Thank you for all of you advise and allowing me to vent.

 

[BigCityChief]

Best of luck - let us know how S&W customer service handles it.

 

[highaltitude]

Update: Back to the range today with a clean and freshly lubed (per the manual) Shield. Third magazine, 15th round, stovepipes - vertically and upside down keeping the slide from moving forward. I clear it and shoot another 60 rounds or so with no problems.

I then load a magazine, seat it in the pistol, release the slide and nothing. Upon examination I noticed that the slide did not fully go into battery. I pushed it forward and was able to fire.

I just have a pit in my stomach after waiting so long for this pistol - it is accurate, easy to carry, seems well made and is priced well. I am just extremely disappointed that I can not trust it.

I have thousands of rounds through Glock 9mm and 40 and have never felt this level of frustration with any of them.

I will be calling Smith & Wesson Monday to see what options I have, until them the 642 goes back in service.

Thank you for all of you advise and allowing me to vent.

The only two suggestions I would offer, would be (1) make sure your thumbs are not interfering with slide when you are shooting, since it is a very small gun and easy to do. If you are doing this seems like it could cause the jams. (2) When racking the slide, make sure your not riding it, as this would also cause it not to go into battery. Lastly, this gun can FTE if it's limp wristed. Personally, I've only experienced 1 FTE in 850+ rounds because I purposely limp wristed it with WWB 115. You probably already know all the above, though. Either way, I'm sure S&W will get you fixed up, if it comes to that.

 

[Edmo]

...I have thousands of rounds through Glock 9mm and 40 and have never felt this level of frustration with any of them.

I will be calling Smith & Wesson Monday to see what options I have, until them the 642 goes back in service.

Thank you for all of you advise and allowing me to vent.

Or put your trusty GLOCKs back into service...

Edmo

 

[jeshoffstall]

Or put your trusty GLOCKs back into service...

Edmo

As much as I love to shoot them, it's like carrying a brick on your hip. The are for night stand duty!

 

[HotRoderX]

Update: Back to the range today with a clean and freshly lubed (per the manual) Shield. Third magazine, 15th round, stovepipes - vertically and upside down keeping the slide from moving forward. I clear it and shoot another 60 rounds or so with no problems.

I then load a magazine, seat it in the pistol, release the slide and nothing. Upon examination I noticed that the slide did not fully go into battery. I pushed it forward and was able to fire.

I just have a pit in my stomach after waiting so long for this pistol - it is accurate, easy to carry, seems well made and is priced well. I am just extremely disappointed that I can not trust it.

I have thousands of rounds through Glock 9mm and 40 and have never felt this level of frustration with any of them.

I will be calling Smith & Wesson Monday to see what options I have, until them the 642 goes back in service.

Thank you for all of you advise and allowing me to vent.

Where you using Remington ammo? The first thing I do is try a different ammo manufacture. I would then load the mags 1 round short if the problem persisted. Then as a last case I call Smith and Wesson. I have a gun that will not shoot Aguila ammo at all it chokes on it every few mags. Very will could just be the Remington ammo. Also I like to break my pistols in that means at least 500 rounds thought a semi auto before I will trust it.

 

[Old cop]

I feel your pain and hope things get resolved very soon, I've found S&W does stand behind their products. It's just a shame you have to go through this with what should have been a trouble-free pistol.

The fact that you've taken the time to document this is appreciated more than you will know. I had been considering a Shield after renting one but will stick w/my trusty 442 or Colt Cobra.

 

[jeshoffstall]

Update - I emailed S&W after my last range trip, detailing in a very honest and professional manner my concerns with the Shield and asking for their recommendations. The next morning I received a reply stating that they too were concerned and would email me a call tag. I shipped the Pistol back to them and they received in on Jan 11. Today Fedx delivered it to my house.

The paperwork inside the box states:
Repaired: Barrel Modification (no idea what this means)
Repaired: Replace Extractor
Repaired: Range Tested/Meets Spec

So, the question will be how it shoots. Can not get to the range until the weekend, but Kudo's to S&W for stepping up being responsive to my concerns.

Will report back after some range time.

If all goes well, I then have to decide what to do with the Nano!