Should I switch from HST to Guard Dog?

[ColumbusJBR]

Hey gang, I've got a FS M&P 45 that is strictly a home defense gun. I do not carry it. I also live in a duplex with neighbors across a stairwell. Anyway, I've currently got my mags loaded with 230 grain HST, which I've been told is an excellent self defense round, but then I just recently started reading about the Federal Guard Dog rounds. From what I can tell the GD is a more ideal HOME defense round due to its Expanding full metal jacket (EFMJ) design. The HST or other hollow points are great if you hit a fleshy target, but if your miss and hit something hard like drywall you run the risk of less expansion and over penetration. With the EFMJ design, it relies on mechanical force to initiate expansion, making it less prone to over penetrate walls and other materials.

Anyway, that's kind of what I was able to conclude from my brief research. Am I on the right track. You guys think I should make the switch?

Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[blujax01]

Either of those will go through drywall like it isn't there.

 

[Calaveras Slim]

Unfortunately, these folk have a product to sell. They tell you what they find out in very controlled testing. It may not be what it will really do. You have a round that will go thru dry wall like hot knife thru butter. I really don't know of a round that will stop at dry wall.

Good luck

 

[moxie]

Not much difference.

If you are really concerned, there is Glaser. When it hits drywall it breaks up into #12 pellets, which individually are less then lethal, usually. When packed together as a mass into a bullet cup, they are certainly lethal when hitting flesh, usually. You will get responses from both ends of the spectrum on these, including emotional. You be the judge.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Hey gang, I've got a FS M&P 45 that is strictly a home defense gun. I do not carry it. I also live in a duplex with neighbors across a stairwell. Anyway, I've currently got my mags loaded with 230 grain HST, which I've been told is an excellent self defense round, but then I just recently started reading about the Federal Guard Dog rounds. From what I can tell the GD is a more ideal HOME defense round due to its Expanding full metal jacket (EFMJ) design. The HST or other hollow points are great if you hit a fleshy target, but if your miss and hit something hard like drywall you run the risk of less expansion and over penetration. With the EFMJ design, it relies on mechanical force to initiate expansion, making it less prone to over penetrate walls and other materials.

Anyway, that's kind of what I was able to conclude from my brief research. Am I on the right track. You guys think I should make the switch?

Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks!

EFMJ was designed originally by Federal for the military to skirt the issue of various treaties which prohibit the use of hollow points, to which the US may or may not be a signatory, and which may or may not apply to "police actions" such as the "war" on terror.

Then, Federal got the idea that it was perfect for such home grown terror states such as New Jersey, the garbage dump of the east coast, which prohibits hollow points as if they were anthrax.

Finally, Federal wanted to recoup its investment in this technology, so they finally offered this round, somewhat tweaked, as the Guard Dog. Stupid name for a cartridge that only makes sense in New Jersey. It does nothing differently on the receiving end than an ordinary hollow point, but it is "disguised" as a full metal jacket.

Stick with Hydra-Shok or HST or the Winchester PDX1 in .45 ACP. The HST and the PDX1 are both designed to expand in all of the barriers in the FBI ammo testing protocol. Drywall is included among those barriers.

 

[ColumbusJBR]

EFMJ was designed originally for the military to skirt the issue of various treaties which prohibit the use of hollow points, to which the US may or may not be a signatory, and which may or may not apply to "police actions" such as the "war" on terror.

Then, they got the idea that it was perfect for such home grown terror states such as New Jersey, the garbage dump of the east coast, which prohibits hollow points as if they were anthrax.

Finally, Federal wanted to recoup its investment in this technology, so they finally offered this round, somewhat tweaked, as the Guard Dog. Stupid name for a cartridge that only makes sense in New Jersey. It does nothing differently on the receiving end than an ordinary hollow point, but it is "disguised" as a full metal jacket.

Stick with Hydra-Shok or HST or the Winchester PDX1 in .45 ACP. The HST and the PDX1 are both designed to expand in all of the barriers in the FBI ammo testing protocol. Drywall is included among those barriers.

Thanks so much for taking the time to post. Very informative! I'll save my money for more target ammo.

Thanks to all who responded!

 

[Taycel]

HST is the ONLY round in my firearms, at home. This is why.....45 ACP Federal HST 230 gr Ammo Gel Test - YouTube

 

[Fire75]

There are so many rounds to look at. Why not Lehigh Defense or Liberty?

 

[WR Moore]

What most of the previous posters said about bullets vs drywall. I've had the opportunity to use a statistically significant number of Glasers and find the real world performance far different than the ad copy. I don't use it or advise any others to use it.

Why? First off, it was designed to avoid ricochets. Depending upon circumstances, it penetrates drywall quite well. Or, it might not. In either case, you can't depend upon it.

Perhaps more importantly, the point of impact differs markedly from point of aim, even at closer ranges. Finally, tactical penetration is sadly lacking. I had one round break up on a tooth of a charging, suspected rabid, large dog and fail to inflict any injury beyond a broken tooth. Obviously, this story had a satisfactory ending but it was the last straw.

Federal ought to find the flack who came up with the 'Guard Dog' name and fire both him and the exec who approved the idea. The EFMJ does do two good things: eliminate the evil jacketed hollow point talking point for juries/malicious prosecutors and run through subguns like oats through a goose.

 

[Waywatcher]

Should I switch from HST to Guard Dog?

Uh, no. Next question?

 

[66snub]

The new "jelly donut" technology is cool and all, but hollow point rounds are a time proven bullet and they work. Period.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I select my bullets by what they do to the BG.................
not if I miss.

In most cases a bullet that is safe for others on the other side of a room, is a minimum SD load.

I want................. "Better than Most".

 

[safearm]

Detroit PD has been using the Federal 9mm EFMJ for some time as they too are restricted from using HP ammunition. Their "success" rate, i.e., the ability to stop the offender's actions, is statistically no better or worse than agencies that use conventional HP bullets. However, Guard Dog is not the same ammo as the original Federal EFMJ.