Should the FBI Know How Many Guns You Own?

[DeadManWalking]

"The "library records" provision of the so-called Patriot Act could also be known as the "gun records" provision, because it also allows the FBI to seize the forms you use to buy guns.

This infamous provision, Section 215, is a direct assault on your Fourth Amendment rights because it allows the FBI to obtain personal information about you, without a warrant and without your knowledge."

Should the FBI Know How Many Guns You Own?

 

[AZretired]

I'll be writing my congressman.

 

[cass]

American Gestapo.

 

[nogods]

I'll be writing my congressman.

Then your congressman and the FBI will know you own guns.

 

[stantheman86]

If the ATF knows how many guns you own, I'm pretty sure it won't be hard for the FBI to know too.

The problem is, when does an avid collector become an "arsenal holder"? I thought I had a lot of guns, mostly .38 and .357 revolvers though.......and I have met guys who make what I've got seem like a starter set.....if a guy has hundreds of M1 Garands and K98 Mausers, is he gonna get labeled as having a "cache"? This is my concern......that some law is gonna pass and not let people collect anymore, and the govt. will say how many guns you can own.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

The last report I've seen of FBI performance indicates that they only violate their own regulatory statutes about 6,000 times per year. FBI agents are all college graduates, many of them lawyers, pretty smart folks overall. I want them to know what to expect when they decide to come to my home or business for the purpose of violating my Constitutionally-guaranteed rights.

As I have told my congress-critters, anytime they want to take away all the guns and ammunition they can come over to the house and I will give them the ammunition first.

Lots of tired old cliche comments could be applied, like: "Give me liberty or give me death", or "Don't tread on me", but "Molon Labe" says it best.

In 480 BC, at the battle of Thermopylae, King Leonidas of Sparta was confronted by Xerxes of Persia and given the ultimatum of surrendering weapons and surviving, or face certain death. Leonidas replied "Molon Labe" meaning "Come and take them!".

2531 years later, and it is still important that tyrants fully understand that some folks will be conquered only by brute force. My sense of fair play may not be shared by would-be tyrants, but I think it is only fair that those who serve tyrants should know what to expect when they impose themselves upon free men.

Yes, they should know what I have. They should also know that about 80-90 million other Americans have about 250-300 million similar items, and more than a few of us will refuse to meekly accept anything less than the birthrights granted us by our forefathers.

Molon Labe.

 

[exSun]

The FBI doesn't know how many guns I have. I'm not sure that I do. But after the in-state person to person sales and purchases, how would they know?

 

[m1gunner]

The last report I've seen of FBI performance indicates that they only violate their own regulatory statutes about 6,000 times per year. FBI agents are all college graduates, many of them lawyers, pretty smart folks overall. I want them to know what to expect when they decide to come to my home or business for the purpose of violating my Constitutionally-guaranteed rights.

As I have told my congress-critters, anytime they want to take away all the guns and ammunition they can come over to the house and I will give them the ammunition first.

Lots of tired old cliche comments could be applied, like: "Give me liberty or give me death", or "Don't tread on me", but "Molon Labe" says it best.

In 480 BC, at the battle of Thermopylae, King Leonidas of Sparta was confronted by Xerxes of Persia and given the ultimatum of surrendering weapons and surviving, or face certain death. Leonidas replied "Molon Labe" meaning "Come and take them!".

2531 years later, and it is still important that tyrants fully understand that some folks will be conquered only by brute force. My sense of fair play may not be shared by would-be tyrants, but I think it is only fair that those who serve tyrants should know what to expect when they impose themselves upon free men.

Yes, they should know what I have. They should also know that about 80-90 million other Americans have about 250-300 million similar items, and more than a few of us will refuse to meekly accept anything less than the birthrights granted us by our forefathers.

Molon Labe.

Unfortunately, folks today think the 2nd refers to rifles and handguns. Big time WRONG! It refers to ARMS, and the arms needed to protect the Republic.

When the 2nd was written, there was no US Navy. Individuals owned ships that could or did carry heavy weapons. Same for local militia and personally owned field pieces.

If we learn nothing else from the dust up in Libya, it should be that pop-guns aren't what is guaranteed by the 2nd, or what we really need.

Small arms are used to secure the perimeter for the crew served stuff.

 

[rromeo]

If the ATF knows how many guns you own, I'm pretty sure it won't be hard for the FBI to know too.

The problem is, when does an avid collector become an "arsenal holder"? I thought I had a lot of guns, mostly .38 and .357 revolvers though.......and I have met guys who make what I've got seem like a starter set.....if a guy has hundreds of M1 Garands and K98 Mausers, is he gonna get labeled as having a "cache"? This is my concern......that some law is gonna pass and not let people collect anymore, and the govt. will say how many guns you can own.

Once you own more than two "evil black rifles" you have a weapons cache. I think over 10 guns total becomes an arsenal if it's "including several assault weapons." Never mind the "hundreds of rounds of ammunition."

 

[nogods]

Unfortunately, folks today think the 2nd refers to rifles and handguns. Big time WRONG! It refers to ARMS, and the arms needed to protect the Republic.

When the 2nd was written, there was no US Navy. Individuals owned ships that could or did carry heavy weapons. Same for local militia and personally owned field pieces.

If we learn nothing else from the dust up in Libya, it should be that pop-guns aren't what is guaranteed by the 2nd, or what we really need.

Small arms are used to secure the perimeter for the crew served stuff.

That's why I'm building a Frigate right now.

 

[kraigwy]

That's why I'm building a Frigate right now.

I'm already there.

 

[sheriffoconee]

I know that many here will have a hard time believing what I am about to type, but I have been in law enforcement for 34 years, an elected Sheriff for the past 19. My father retired from the FBI in 1984, and I have spent my childhood and adult life around a variety of FBI agents and Federal agents of a variety of any organization you can name.
However, and I say this with all sincerity, I can't imagine the FBI giving a rats rear end how many guns anyone has.
Yes, the ATF can and will trace an original manufacture, distribution and retail sale of a relatively recently manufactured firearm via the 4473 a purchaser fills out from a dealer, and from records of the manufacturer and distributor. All law enforcement agencies make that request of ATF on a routine basis. Most of us do it for all guns taken into evidence for almost any reason....a lot of stolen guns are recovered that way when the owner of a stolen gun doesn't know the serial number at the time of the theft.
But anyone who knows how the FBI really does things knows that the FBI doesn't have the time, resources, manpower, or interest in knowing how many guns "Citizen X" has....
Nor does any other agency.....
Of all the things I worry about, the FBI and what they know are the least of my problems...right behind what the Mississippi League of Women Voters are doing at their next monthly meeting.....

 

[Steve in Vermont]

I know that many here will have a hard time believing what I am about to type, but I have been in law enforcement for 34 years, an elected Sheriff for the past 19. My father retired from the FBI in 1984, and I have spent my childhood and adult life around a variety of FBI agents and Federal agents of a variety of any organization you can name.
However, and I say this with all sincerity, I can't imagine the FBI giving a rats rear end how many guns anyone has.
Yes, the ATF can and will trace an original manufacture, distribution and retail sale of a relatively recently manufactured firearm via the 4473 a purchaser fills out from a dealer, and from records of the manufacturer and distributor. All law enforcement agencies make that request of ATF on a routine basis. Most of us do it for all guns taken into evidence for almost any reason....a lot of stolen guns are recovered that way when the owner of a stolen gun doesn't know the serial number at the time of the theft.
But anyone who knows how the FBI really does things knows that the FBI doesn't have the time, resources, manpower, or interest in knowing how many guns "Citizen X" has....
Nor does any other agency.....
Of all the things I worry about, the FBI and what they know are the least of my problems...right behind what the Mississippi League of Women Voters are doing at their next monthly meeting.....

Amen. The government isn't coming after our guns. That issue has been settled but of course needs to be watched. What they don't want is people selling guns to felons, or to the Mexican Cartels, or mentally unfit people. So let's be vigilant but not paranoid. If the government wants my guns I won't take any action that would jeopardize a police officer. I'll deal with them in a court of law, not in an armed standoff.

 

[Engine 21]

I'll second that.

I know that many here will have a hard time believing what I am about to type, but I have been in law enforcement for 34 years, an elected Sheriff for the past 19. My father retired from the FBI in 1984, and I have spent my childhood and adult life around a variety of FBI agents and Federal agents of a variety of any organization you can name.
However, and I say this with all sincerity, I can't imagine the FBI giving a rats rear end how many guns anyone has.
Yes, the ATF can and will trace an original manufacture, distribution and retail sale of a relatively recently manufactured firearm via the 4473 a purchaser fills out from a dealer, and from records of the manufacturer and distributor. All law enforcement agencies make that request of ATF on a routine basis. Most of us do it for all guns taken into evidence for almost any reason....a lot of stolen guns are recovered that way when the owner of a stolen gun doesn't know the serial number at the time of the theft.
But anyone who knows how the FBI really does things knows that the FBI doesn't have the time, resources, manpower, or interest in knowing how many guns "Citizen X" has....
Nor does any other agency.....
Of all the things I worry about, the FBI and what they know are the least of my problems...right behind what the Mississippi League of Women Voters are doing at their next monthly meeting.....

Amen
I don't think the FBI really cares how many firearms you own. However, they are entering into things that use to be local or state issues.

 

[therevjay]

Unfortunately, folks today think the 2nd refers to rifles and handguns. Big time WRONG! It refers to ARMS, and the arms needed to protect the Republic.

When the 2nd was written, there was no US Navy. Individuals owned ships that could or did carry heavy weapons. Same for local militia and personally owned field pieces.

If we learn nothing else from the dust up in Libya, it should be that pop-guns aren't what is guaranteed by the 2nd, or what we really need.



Small arms are used to secure the perimeter for the crew served stuff.

"Pop guns" worked fairly well for the Viet Cong-French-Polish-Greek- Norweigen-Yugoslavian, etc. partisains.

Small arms enable you to get some crew served weapons from the enemy, if you have none of your own.

 

[safearm]

Of all the things I worry about, the FBI and what they know are the least of my problems...right behind what the Mississippi League of Women Voters are doing at their next monthly meeting.....

Since the building that houses the Mississippi Association of Womens' Clubs is next to where I work, I unfortunately become aware of what the Mississippi League of Women Voters are doing at their next monthly meeting...

 

[blackflag]

What they don't want is people selling guns to felons, or to the Mexican Cartels, or mentally unfit people.
. . . I'll deal with them in a court of law

None of us do. That's why there's a procedure to get a warrant. If you're willing to work within the bounds of the law, so should they.

 

[27145]

Dont worry, what does the FBI stand for? Famous But Incompetent.

 

[Beejabbers]

I would suggest reading articles avaiable through the JPFO web site for
insight into what can happen even if we don't think it is likely in the US.

 

[rburg]

Lots of stuff in this thread. The good sheriff misspelled it, its the League of Women Vipers. Just get on the down side of them one time and you'll understand.

An earlier poster also pointed out he's not sure how many he owns. I'm certain I don't know, and I make it a point not to. That way I'm not lying when someone asks and I can tell them honestly that I don't. Whats worse, I don't care. More than I need, less than I want.

What I do know is if someone came along and took everyone of them, within a half hour I know about a dozen people who'd be on the road to loan me whatever I needed (or wanted.) Its comforting to know. But I'd return the favor to them if the situation were reversed.

Things were so much simpler 40 years ago. I knew for a fact I owned maybe a half dozen guns. You knew each one intimately. These days I'm not even sure how many K22s I own, but its got to be ... um... more than the half dozen.

The one time I got all my records in order and totaled them up, I was shocked and began the process of selling down a couple of hundred of them. Then I realized the folly of knowing exact numbers, so I stopped.