"Show clear"

[rngunner]

The range officer says "clear weapon", here we tend to be told, remove mag, rack back, show empty chamber, slide forward, squeeze trigger, rack back, insert safety flag.

I believe you are not supposed to pull the trigger on an empty S&W MP 15-22,something about damaging the firing pin.

What do you do over there ?

 

[TheMaineEvent]

Either don't pull the trigger or if you can't skip that step you can pull the bolt back about a 1/4" and then pull the trigger.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I think that I understand and even sympathize with the apparent reasoning behind racking the slide twice as many times as needed, and pulling the trigger in between, but it is unnecessary, and with some guns unwise. We often have plastic safety flags (yellow) that actually go into the chamber and even bore. Not always the case with subcalibers.

If a second party sees a clear chamber, and you can get a safety flag into it, it seems enough to me. While some people over here will drop the hammer on an autoloader, I have never heard of requiring it. I suppose that someone somewhere does, but I have been shooting for nearly fifty years, and haven't seen it yet.

 

[Jolly]

Yea, chamber tags are inserted when showing clear on rifles at my range. The RO's should know not to ask rimfires to drop the hammer. I had one once try to force the issue on my S&W model 41 and I wouldn't do it. We actually had to call the RM in charge to come over and resolve the issue. In short the RO was wrong.

 

[Harrison]

While some people over here will drop the hammer on an autoloader, I have never heard of requiring it. I suppose that someone somewhere does, but I have been shooting for nearly fifty years, and haven't seen it yet.

Dropping the hammer (or striker) on an autoloader, after showing clear, has been required in USPSA/IPSC since at least the mid eighties, I believe IDPA, and Single Stack Society, may require the same. I am surprised you have not seen it, but than you may not shoot either of the two most popular pistol competitive sports in the country.

 

[Lorelei]

Yea, chamber tags are inserted when showing clear on rifles at my range. The RO's should know not to ask rimfires to drop the hammer. I had one once try to force the issue on my S&W model 41 and I wouldn't do it. We actually had to call the RM in charge to come over and resolve the issue. In short the RO was wrong.

If you pull the trigger on a 41 that has no magazine nothing happens.

 

[roushstage2]

Out here, we just shoot what is loaded, remove the mag and insert the chamber flag.

 

[Ghost_Soldier]

I believe you are not supposed to pull the trigger on an empty S&W MP 15-22,something about damaging the firing pin.

It will not damage the firing pin to dry fire the 15-22. You're good to go with the RSO's instructions.

 

[Majorlk]

My range does not require chamber flags as we actually inspect the chamber to confirm it is empty by shining a flashlight into it.

And, no, dry firing a 15-22 will not damage the firing pin.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Dropping the hammer (or striker) on an autoloader, after showing clear, has been required in USPSA/IPSC since at least the mid eighties, I believe IDPA, and Single Stack Society, may require the same. I am surprised you have not seen it, but than you may not shoot either of the two most popular pistol competitive sports in the country.

I think that you are right. I used to shoot IPSC quite a bit, but probably didn't remember it because (a) it was a centerfire pistol that was not going to be damaged and (b) it was prior to holstering a gun with the slide forward, so it WAS more or less necessary, thus there was no conflict with common sense. The same could not be said of benching a rifle with a flag stuck in it.

 

[Smithsrevenge]

This is why I love my gun club. Range master says "CLEAR". I holster my weapon lmfao

 

[RedNeck Jim]

I shoot ON the range, not at one... as in pastures. The only range I've ever shot at was for qualifying while serving in the USAF.

However, looks like we follow most of the same procedures as you folks. We always remove the magazine & double rack the bolt, followed by a visual check of the chamber. If possible, the gun is put on safe. Last week when I had a kid shoot the 15-22 for the 1st time, I had to train him on my safety procedures. He was removing the magazine & putting the gun on safe, but failed to visually check the chamber. After a quick explanation, he was perfect from then on.

We never dry fire our guns to verify safety. I'm of the school that any dry fire is not real good for a gun & should be done so sparingly.

 

[rngunner]

It will not damage the firing pin to dry fire the 15-22. You're good to go with the RSO's instructions.

I don`t have the 15-22 manual but I was told it says in there not to "dry fire", if its not going to damage the pin what is it going to damage ?. Must be something there, feed ramp ?

 

[Majorlk]

I don`t have the 15-22 manual but I was told it says in there not to "dry fire", if its not going to damage the pin what is it going to damage ?. Must be something there, feed ramp ?

1 - the manual is available online from S&W. Didn't one come with your rifle?

2 - the prohibition is a cya liability issue. There's nothing to damage. The firing pin does not extend past the bolt face. It's impossible for it to hit the breech face. It comes nowhere near the feed ramp or anything else except the cartridge rim.

 

[Kayback]

If you fire a 15-22 that has had the upper removed the hammer will slam into the polymer frame and ay damage it.

A put together with all the bits rifle will not be damaged if you dry fire it. There was one or two older designs there the firing pin may hit the breech face when you do this, and damage the pin. A decently designed firearm will not do this.

You can safely dry fire a 15-22 and most other .22's out there.

If you couldn't then you couldn't ever remove the safety or the triger unit.

Unloading and showing clear, slide forward and "trigger to the rear" or "Pull the trigger" is the new IDPA way if saying "Unload show clear, slide forwards and hammer down" because so many modern guns are striker fired.

I don't see the point of hammer down/pull the trigger if you are going to insert a chamber flag anyway. The idea behind it is if the unload and the visual check failed and there is a round in the chamber somehow dropping the hammer will fire it in a safe direction. If you are putting in a chamber flag you aren't going to be able to close the action anyway, and will not be able to fire it even if there is one in there.

On some guns, like the 15-22, opening the action far enough to geta chamber flag in there will cock the hammer again.

KBK

 

[varmint243]

Good grief

I'm sure glad I don't share a range with some of the folks here.
Range rule are range rules, follow them or don't shoot.
RO needs to be listened to, There is not cause for debate on the firing line.
If you wish to challenge range rules or RO do so off the firing line and not with a working RO.
Take your issue up offline in an appropriate manner at the appropriate place.
All of our safety depends on uniform application of range safety rules.

I can't tell you how many times I've had to remind shooters to lock their slide back, swing their cylinder out, and not handle weapons during a cease fire.

 

[Kayback]

The thing is some equipment can't comply with the unload show clear/slide forwards/hammer down commands.

For example un modified BHP's have a magazine safety. No magazine, no dropping the hammer.

Arguing with the RO is sometimes all you can do if they spring surprises on you like trying to insist you hammer down and insert a chamber flag with an uncocked hammer, but when you open the slide you cock the hammer.

I'm now on the line, physically unable to comply with their instructions - how do you get off the line to take it up "in an appropriate manner"?

KBK

 

[rngunner]

Ok guy`s
I think you all have convinced me its o.k. I will tell the RO if I can put a flag in the breach must be empty, or/and I will ease bolt back a little before pulling trigger.
Thanks everyone

 

[Doc Robin]

Magazines out, actions open, rifles in the rack, step back to the chain link fence before the RO will call all clear to go forward to check you target.

One shot per second max; no rapid fire.

Bill

 

[Kayback]

One shot per second max; no rapid fire.

Stupidest rule ever. So glad I don't shoot there.

I have an AK, how do you lock the action open on one of those? They lack BHO, and most BHO's on unmodified AK's are magazine follower based, take out the mag the bolt goes forwards.

KBK