Nanuk
Member
There are about 5 million of them in the wild. One or 2 ND's a year is not bad. We have that many with revolvers.
Sig is still having issues with the P320 trigger?
- Thread starter tlawler
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There are about 5 million of them in the wild. One or 2 ND's a year is not bad. We have that many with revolvers.
Just my opinion and what you paid for it, but my hunch has always been that for Sig to get a better trigger pull then Glock, they had to make a deal with the devil on how much more the striker was prestaging the striker/firing pin. then the Glock.
And have a plastic frame housing a metal fire control group, that certain ways of bending/twisting the gun in a holster could upset that delicate balance. Which is why it's so hard to re-create. Add in tolerance stacking of parts.
And the Military carry's empty pistols more then they carry loaded ones. Unlike LEO's. Add an external safety and the risk drops quite a bit.
And have a plastic frame housing a metal fire control group, that certain ways of bending/twisting the gun in a holster could upset that delicate balance. Which is why it's so hard to re-create. Add in tolerance stacking of parts.
And the Military carry's empty pistols more then they carry loaded ones. Unlike LEO's. Add an external safety and the risk drops quite a bit.
For those with continuing interest in the topic — since I bought one before I was aware of the issue my interest is ongoing — here are a couple of recent videos that are favorable to Sig's steadfast position that the P320 cannot be fired without pulling the trigger:
You need to follow your own advice. No one has replicated the uncommanded discharge with one of the pistols that reportedly had an uncommanded discharge. Your statements are not facts, merely your interpretation and opinion.
The whole issue with the 320's seems to be complicated because it appears to be not just one issue.
1. Firing when dropped. This happened and could be replicated. Sig didn't help with this with their response. They kind of addressed it but at the same time denied it.
2. Fully cocked gun with a lighter trigger pull. Yes, people are getting stuff caught in holsters, fingers in trigger guard, etc which aren't mechanical faults of the gun and having unintentional / negligent discharges.
3. Discharges that can't be attributed to being dropped or anything getting in the trigger guard pulling the trigger. This is the one that is the most concerning. The theory here is that there are faulty parts out there that are out of spec and / or the tolerances are out of whack so that the gun can somehow fire.
Three separate issues that get moshed together when discussing the 320. Sig should have done and should be doing a better job of addressing issue with the 320 than they have. They are not helping clear anything up or addressing this in a way to help their credibility.
1. Firing when dropped. This happened and could be replicated. Sig didn't help with this with their response. They kind of addressed it but at the same time denied it.
2. Fully cocked gun with a lighter trigger pull. Yes, people are getting stuff caught in holsters, fingers in trigger guard, etc which aren't mechanical faults of the gun and having unintentional / negligent discharges.
3. Discharges that can't be attributed to being dropped or anything getting in the trigger guard pulling the trigger. This is the one that is the most concerning. The theory here is that there are faulty parts out there that are out of spec and / or the tolerances are out of whack so that the gun can somehow fire.
Three separate issues that get moshed together when discussing the 320. Sig should have done and should be doing a better job of addressing issue with the 320 than they have. They are not helping clear anything up or addressing this in a way to help their credibility.
I’m Frady-scared of the SIG 320.
You #3 is the issue. If faulty parts or whatever, why isn’t the faulty pistol tested to replicate the failure?
I don't know why. It's the mystery part of this. Has Sig gotten these guns back and tested them, who knows. The way they handled the drop issue nobody trusts them. The fact they had some bad cheaply made parts in these at times exacerbates the unknown.
Glenn R. McMannly
Member
Funny how lamented and loathed the M9 was in service… now it’s the golden child out of the blue.
It went 'bang' only when you pulled the trigger, although it is still a 9.
Somalis used the Masada 9mm and respected it for durability - they thought the SIG M-11s (P229) we got them were too big, to heavy, and springs rusted too easily in salt air in Mogadishu. Many kept the Masadas.
Somalis used the Masada 9mm and respected it for durability - they thought the SIG M-11s (P229) we got them were too big, to heavy, and springs rusted too easily in salt air in Mogadishu. Many kept the Masadas.
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I have a M-17, which as far as I know does not suffer from the unknown malady. My thought about this is that it has a thumb safety so it's much harder to fire accidentally. Up until recently all of my striker fired handguns had thumb safety's. Not long ago I worked as an Armed Security Guard, the company specified Glocks as the designated carry firearm. I refused to carry a Glock and told them that I would quit if I had to carry one. My choice was a Sig M-17, which they attempted to thwart by requiring that the carry firearm be black. At the cost of an additional $200 I was able to purchase a black M-17 from a dealer who had one left over from when Sig made M-17s in black. Since they supplied Glock holsters I was on my own and easily found a Level II holster for the Sig. During the required training the instructor, unaware of my 30 years in the Army and being a Military as well as NRA firearms instructor warned me about forgetting to click off the safety prior to shooting. I won't go into the issues about an instructor not checking on the background of the students prior to starting training. During the draw and fire portion of the training there was an incident of one of the students prematurely firing his Glock, fortunately into the ground due to placing his finger on the trigger prior to being ready to shoot. I kept quiet about the issues of the trigger safety. The instructor noted that I was able to draw and fire accurately much faster than the others. My hits found their designated mark for every exercise. He noticed that I was shooting much more accurately than the others. When he asked about why I was able to shoot much more accurately than the others I simply said, "I'm not shooting a Glock." He took immediate offense to that remark and challenged me to a match to prove his point that a Glock was not as accurate as my Sig. I specified the match to be from 25 yards, well beyond the syllabus range of 10 yards. I wont go into details, but he lost, not because I was a better shooter, but because the Glock is not as accurate as other handguns.
65-2x2
Member
If you can't replicate the problem, you need to look elsewhere for answers to the NDs. The wont' be found in anectdotes.
What I would like to see, is some of the goomers that "test" firearms to destruction on the web is to load a 320 with a blank round, cock it, put it on safe, holster it and put it in a tumble clothes dryer and let it run for a half hour to see if that causes the piece to fire without pulling the trigger.
What I would like to see, is some of the goomers that "test" firearms to destruction on the web is to load a 320 with a blank round, cock it, put it on safe, holster it and put it in a tumble clothes dryer and let it run for a half hour to see if that causes the piece to fire without pulling the trigger.
LVSteve
Member
Which would be fine except most police Sig 320s cannot be placed "on safe" because they are the model with no thumb safety.
65-2x2
Member
Well then I suppose that they are in safe mode all the time... I still think that passing such a test would put the rumors to bed.
65-2x2
Member
It is because the "problem" is anecdotal. When you consider all of the people who claim that the gun "just went off" you also have to consider all the the people who have seen Bigfoot, Nessie, or have been abducted by little green men from another planet.Once the drop test design flaw in the M18 the Army discovered was corrected by Sig, has there been ANY single component, design failures, or quality parts issues identified after years of design analysis, microscopic parts analysis, exhaustive testing by the most knowledge firearm “experts” on the planet, that can be unequivocally proven to cause the P320-M18 to fire a round without pulling the trigger?
Why can the “auto-fire” condition NOT be duplicated, replicated, or re-enacted?
paddlingman
Member
LVSteve
Member
There are videos of some of the events. The female officer walking across a carpark carrying stuff was utterly bizarre.
Manual safeties are readily added, though. Also, some P320 models come with the manual safety stock:
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